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Edward Windels
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 238

Posted 11/7/2015 5:56 PM (GMT -6)

Windows 7
Finale 2014d

Anyone know how to do this? The help manual doesn't seem to have anything. I have a section in a cello sonata where the piano is in 9/4 and the cello in 6/4. Same beat, same tempo... just the barlines / meters should be different.

Thanks.

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 11/7/2015 6:06 PM (GMT -6)

I see that you asked this question in another thread. Did you look at Peter's file there? I believe how showed you what you need to do. That's at least one way to do it.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

~~Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3~~, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. ~~2014c at present.~~ Now 2014d.

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Edward Windels
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 238

Posted 11/7/2015 6:10 PM (GMT -6)

I've opened it and poked around through it, but can't figure out what to click where and when.

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 11/7/2015 6:53 PM (GMT -6)

If this file is close, I'll explain what I did.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

File Attachment :
Staggered Barlines Demo.musx 88KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 230 time(s).

Edward Windels
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 238

Posted 11/7/2015 6:56 PM (GMT -6)

So yes, this is what I'm looking for!

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 11/7/2015 8:28 PM (GMT -6)

Another way.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

File Attachment :
Staggered Barlines Demo 3.musx 93KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 229 time(s).

Edward Windels
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 238

Posted 11/8/2015 10:46 AM (GMT -6)

So how did you do this?

Peter Thomsen
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2000
Total Posts : 8331

Posted 11/8/2015 11:19 AM (GMT -6)

ewindels said...
So how did you do this?

To see how Zuill did this, try viewing the document from different tools.

a) When you are in the Measure Tool, you can see the measure handles, thus revealing where the “real” bars are.

b) When you are in the Staff Tool, you can see the staff styles, especially if you, in the Staff menu select “Show Staff Styles” and “Show Staff Style Names”.
These two menu items will make the staff styles visible as coloured bands above the staves, but the bands are only shown when you are in the Staff Tool.

c) When you are in the Expression Tool, you can see the expression handles, thus revealing where the “false barline” expressions are.

Peter

Mac Finale, 2011c, 2012c & 2014d, Dolet 6.4 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.9.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM

Edward Windels
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 238

Posted 11/8/2015 11:57 AM (GMT -6)

So, for those of you who may find this thread later in search of the same explanation, let me list in writing the steps that Peter suggests should be left to one's own discovery:

1. For the passage in question, create a stretch of measures that are metered to the smallest time signature that fits both (or all) the meter situations you are contrasting. E.g., in my sonata, the cello is in 6/4 against a piano part in 9/4. So the new stretch of measures I created was in 3/4 (dotted half note beat), as this will accommodate both the contrasting meters.

2. Create a staff style (Zuill named his "Hidden barline" and I did the same) that maintains all possibilities half-checked, but unchecks the "barline" option. Make sure you also uncheck (of half-check) the "Alternation Notation" button under "Appearance."

3. Create another staff style (Zuill named his "Independent time signature and I did the same) that maintains all boxes half-checked, but unchecks "Time Signatures" under "Independent Elements."

4. Input your music in to the various sections as desired.

5. Apply the "Hidden barline" staff style as desired. E.g. in my piece, this section is now in 3/4. But I want my cello part to appear to be in 6/4, so I applied this staff style to ever other measure, starting with the first. This hides the barline from your first measure and makes the two 3/4 measures look like one 6/4 measure. For the 9/4 measures in the piano, I applied the staff style to the first two measures of each 3 measure section, etc.

6. I then selected the cello measures and created a time signature region that was actually in 3/4 (dotted half note), but displayed as 6/4 under "More Options."

7. Ditto with the piano part in 9/4.

The one conundrum this creates is that if, like me, you are a fan of regular measure numbering (as opposed to rehearsal numbers or letters), this notation creates a conflict because you wind up with more measures in one part than in the other. So I'm transitioning to a system of rehearsal numbers in this piece. Which isn't a biggie.

And thanks to both Zuill and Peter for useful workaround.

Post Edited (ewindels) : 11/8/2015 11:25:29 AM (GMT-6)

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