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Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 4/27/2016 12:11 PM (GMT -6)

I know this has been discussed before, but I can't find it...

I have an auxiliary measure which starts with a tie from the previous, unshown measure. How do I get that backwards "half tie"?

I tried using an expression, but the closest thing I found was too thick.

Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

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N. Grossingink
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991

Posted 4/27/2016 12:36 PM (GMT -6)

Try the "Edit Frame" box and check "Tie End".

I suspect you know how to get there, but for anyone interested:

√ Select Speedy Tool, click on note you want to edit
√ Press Escape, then Option/Click (Mac) on the same note
√ Edit Frame appears

N.

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Christopher Smith
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2290

Posted 4/27/2016 1:36 PM (GMT -6)

N. Grossingink, that only worked on the first measure of a second ending. Does it work for ALL measures now?

I have had to create a normal tie, then drag it backwards with the Special Tool.

Christopher Smith

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Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 4/27/2016 1:42 PM (GMT -6)

Backwards ties can also work if the measure is the first measure of a Coda, and the tie actually performs as it should. I believe it has to be a measure starting a system.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 4/27/2016 1:44 PM (GMT -6)

I went with Christopher's method. It isn't a coda, or repeat. It's a standalone system of three measures at the end, showing an optional key change.

Thanks, all!

N. Grossingink
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991

Posted 4/27/2016 2:13 PM (GMT -6)

Christopher Smith said...
N. Grossingink, that only worked on the first measure of a second ending. Does it work for ALL measures now?

No, that's not what I meant. Mike said:

I have an auxiliary measure which starts with a tie from the previous, unshown measure.

I was under the impression that this measure existed, but was hidden somehow. That wasn't the case, obviously.

N.

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 4/27/2016 2:34 PM (GMT -6)

Sorry I wasn't clear. In the score, which is about 90 measures, there is an optional key change in m. 54. My addendum shows mm 53, 54, and 55 rewritten to make the change (a half tone up bump), after which the singers should return to the score and sing to the end in the new key. I don't know if this is common in the real world; I've never seen it except in barbershop.

ttw
Registered Member

Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 776

Posted 4/27/2016 2:41 PM (GMT -6)

And I read the title as referring to men's formal dress.

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Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 4/27/2016 4:42 PM (GMT -6)

The unattached tie is common on Looney Tunes cartoons.

Zuill

P.S.: This demo file has a reverse tie (tie end) created in the Speedy Edit Frame. When it occurs at the beginning of a system, it generally works.

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 4/27/2016 4:45:29 PM (GMT-5)

File Attachment :
Tie End.musx 84KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 293 time(s).

jim dukey
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 1082

Posted 4/27/2016 4:45 PM (GMT -6)

I thought "Option/=" gave reverse tie, maybe in Speedy.

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Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 4/27/2016 4:47 PM (GMT -6)

Ah. In Windows, in Simple Entry, Shift-T. In my example, I accomplished that in the measure starting a system.

Zuill

P.S.: I should mention that the previous system must not have anything in it in the same layer. If there is a need for music there, use a different layer. Another approach is to use a cutaway measure at the end of the prior system.

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 4/27/2016 4:55:51 PM (GMT-5)

Ward Baxter
Mercenary of Music

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 280

Posted 5/2/2016 3:38 PM (GMT -6)

Mike, we need to do this all the time in hymns with 3, 4, and even 5 endings which often don't follow nice little rules about where the measures appear in a given staff. What we generally do is create forward ties and manually adjust with the tie tool (under special tools). It is a hassle, but the appearance is what is desired and it is fairly stable once the layout has been pretty much locked in. The rule for backward ties (using OPT =) is the same as the Edit Frame box. In fact, I don't think the Edit Frame box allows you to do things you can't in the interface anymore (used to be able to pre-2005 at least). Zuill had a great tip a few years back that works great in many scenarios that may work for you:

forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=296332

6/29/2010 Zuill said...

There are situations (as in an ending following a "skip ahead" command), that won't have an actual repeat sign, but you still might need the backwards tie. There is a trick: put the repeat sign there (this then shows the tie) and then create a staff style to hide the repeat. Works like a charm, and should playback correctly (no guarantees here).

Ward Baxter
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Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 5/2/2016 5:36 PM (GMT -6)

Good idea, Ward. I'll try it!

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