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Gerry Peters
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 42

Posted 7/31/2016 12:11 AM (GMT -6)

Sometimes when I create a lead sheet that has swing 8th notes, I want to make it clear to less experienced musicians how to interpret swing 8ths. So I create create an indication at the top left of the first page that says Swing and then underneath this are 2 beamed 8th notes= 1/4 1/8 under a triplet bracket with a 3 in between, so they know not to play straight 8ths. .

I’ve always done it with the Ossia tool, but it’s hard to get it looking right and it’s a very round about way of doing it, by first creating a dummy staff, putting the notes and triplet bracket in it, then manually spacing the notes, then hiding the staff and using the Ossia tool to finish the job. And then on top of that I have to use the Text Tool to put a = in between the notes – a pretty clumsy way to accomplish this.

What is the best way to do this. It’s pretty tedious, yet if I were able to copy this from a previously saved MUS file that would be fine too and that way I’d only have to do it one time. It seems like I remember some way of creating a tempo marking, for instance 1/4 note = 120. Maybe that method could solve this problem.

Any suggestions?

Gerry Peters
Midi Magic Studio
Finale 2012c

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 7/31/2016 12:54 AM (GMT -6)

The default file already has this expression.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Gerry Peters
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 42

Posted 7/31/2016 2:00 AM (GMT -6)

I've looked at all the default files that I can find and I don't' find it. Can you give me the exact name and extension, so I can search for it? I wonder if you’ve saved your own default file that has it. Can you upload the file? Thanks for all your help,

Gerry Peters
Midi Magic Studio
Finale 2012c

michelp
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 2232

Posted 7/31/2016 6:20 AM (GMT -6)

It is in the Tempo Marks.

Michel
Finale 2014.5, 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

Gerry Peters
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 42

Posted 7/31/2016 11:39 AM (GMT -6)

Ok I used the Expression Tool and in the box to the left I see Tempo Marks and in that library, I found what I was asking for - thanks.

Now sometimes in a song that has straight 8ths and swing 8ths, may want to notate the swing 8ths as a dotted 1/8 and a 1/16. I first created a duplicate of the expression and then hit edit. I see where I can make some alterations, but the characters are very odd looking.

I'd like to know if there is a relatively easy way to change the 1st 2 8ths to what I want. I tried to edit it and am not even sure what the name of this library is and if there is a chart in the Help file that shows what letters on my keyboard will create those characters. Any suggestions?

This is amazing stuff, I appreciate the help.

Gerry Peters
Midi Magic Studio
Finale 2012c

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 7/31/2016 12:22 PM (GMT -6)

It's easy to do it this way.

But if you wanted the notes beamed together, you would need to go into a font editor and create the character. Otherwise, the dot interferes with the beam length.

Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

Post Edited (Mike Rosen) : 7/31/2016 12:27:29 PM (GMT-5)

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Gerry Peters
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 42

Posted 7/31/2016 12:41 PM (GMT -6)

Hey Mike, thanks. Actually that's the opposite way I was wanting to do it. I want the 1st two 8th notes changed to a dotted 8th and a 16th, so we still have the triplet in there.

But still, you’ve changed it, so can you please tell me which characters you used to make those changes? When I look at the edit box, I see these odd text symbols. I either need to know which characters to type on the keyboard or see a chart that translates those odd characters into musical notes.

Thanks,

Gerry Peters
Midi Magic Studio
Finale 2012c

michelp
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 2232

Posted 7/31/2016 1:19 PM (GMT -6)

Hi Gerry,

Here are a few ideas (see the Finale 2012 file attached). Usually, these symbols are created as expressions using the MaestroTimes font.
However, I couldn't find a way to insert a dotted eight note. The dot was added separately, but creates a little gap.
Copy/paste this sequence and change it to MaestroTimes.
ŒË = Œ Ç‰

Otherwise, you could create the pattern as real notes above the staff, resized if needed, using a plug-in to remove ledger lines. Add = in between the notes.
Another solution is to export that as a graphic and place it in the score.
I wouldn't recommend an ossia.

Michel
Finale 2014.5, 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

Post Edited (michelp) : 7/31/2016 1:26:25 PM (GMT-5)

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swing_2012.jpg 5KB (image/jpeg)

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swing_2012.mus 46KB (application/octet-stream)

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Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 7/31/2016 1:26 PM (GMT -6)

I used the characters in the MaestroTimes font. There are (at least) three ways to do it:

In the Create Expression window, set the font to MaestroTimes and use the drop down "Insert Notes."

In the Create Expression window, set the font to MaestroTimes and for the eighth note, Shift-Option-R, dot, Option-`, then Shift-U

In the Create Expression window, set the font to MaestroTimes and use PopChar

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michelp
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 2232

Posted 7/31/2016 1:42 PM (GMT -6)

The attached file is better, I got it to work using a dotted eight and a beam. It uses this sequence :
Œ˘Ë = ŒÇ‰
I just hope that my keyboard agrees with yours...!

P.S. : +1 for PopChar

Michel
Finale 2014.5, 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

Post Edited (michelp) : 7/31/2016 1:45:36 PM (GMT-5)

File Attachment :
swing_2012 bak.mus 41KB (application/octet-stream)

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Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 7/31/2016 2:33 PM (GMT -6)

Here's a file with Swing and Straight expressions.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

File Attachment :
To Swing or Not to Swing.mus 41KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 336 time(s).

michelp
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 2232

Posted 7/31/2016 4:13 PM (GMT -6)

Back to straight could simply be indicated eight-eight = eight-eight, to show that no triplet feel is implied anymore.

Michel
Finale 2014.5, 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

Gerry Peters
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 42

Posted 8/1/2016 12:02 AM (GMT -6)

Thanks Michel your code really works well. I’m using it with the Text Tool, which in a few ways is better, because you then have control over other font attributes too. I haven’t been able to figure out how to use your code in the Expression Tool. I’m using Finale 2012. I’d like to put it also in the Expression Tool, since sometimes I may prefer that.

Mike Rosen, you must be using a Mac, because I can’t get your code to work with a PC. Also I didn't see PopChar in the Expression Designer box. I must be missing something here.

Thanks everyone for excellent suggestions and advice. I had a feeling the Ossia Tool was not the way to go. I’ve been using FInale for almost 30 years now and that was an old solution. These new methods are great. I’ve always loved all the different ways you can accomplish the same thing in Finale

Gerry Peters
Midi Magic Studio
Finale 2012c

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 8/1/2016 12:09 AM (GMT -6)

Yes, I'm on a Mac. Sorry for the confusion.

PopChar is a third party application, for both Mac and Windows. http://www.ergonis.com/products/popcharwin/

michelp
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 2232

Posted 8/1/2016 5:47 AM (GMT -6)

Gerry Peters said...
Thanks Michel your code really works well... I haven’t been able to figure out how to use your code in the Expression Tool. I’m using Finale 2012. I’d like to put it also in the Expression Tool, since sometimes I may prefer that.

Create an expression. Paste the code, select it and change the font to MaestroTimes, in the size you like.

Michel
Finale 2014.5, 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

Gerry Peters
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 42

Posted 8/1/2016 1:35 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks, Michel. I figured out how to do it, so now I have both in my Expression Tool and know how to tweak them if needed. I now have them in my template, so I won't have to create them again. Now that I understand it fully, there's no reason to use the text tool for it.

Thanks so much,

Gerry Peters
Midi Magic Studio
Finale 2012c

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