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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Macintosh - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Dorico, Finale and the Elbound "Perfect Layout" plugin | Forum Quick Jump
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OCTO.
The radical answers.
      
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659
| Posted 10/23/2016 10:20 PM (GMT -6) |   | | |
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 10/23/2016 11:18 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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N. Grossingink
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991
| Posted 10/24/2016 9:52 AM (GMT -6) | | John Moody said...
Who would need Dorico once this "Perfect Layout" plugin is up and running for Finale users???
Well, it seems to me that a lot of things that the Elbound plugin is designed to fix in Finale are done properly by default in Dorico. For instance, placement and alignment of dynamics and hairpins; proper placement of articulations; automatic stave spacing to avoid collisions; music spacing that seems to be well thought out and more than a step ahead of Finale.
Don't get me wrong - Dorico will not be replacing Finale anytime soon, if at all, in my toolbox. Still, Finale should have more advanced layout features to produce better output. I'm glad the developer of this plugin has undertaken the development of this product.
N.
OSX El Capitan 10.11.6
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work
Finale 2014.5, not used by my clients
(Finale v25 - not interested yet)
TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale | | Back to Top | |
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 10/24/2016 2:17 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 10/24/2016 7:42 PM (GMT -6) | | Actually, the third party plugins can easily be fixed if broken, whereas built in features that don't work tend to never get fixed. So, I'm happy to have that paradigm.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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nordensten
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2000
Total Posts : 419
| Posted 10/25/2016 5:45 AM (GMT -6) | | Zoots said...
I'm certainly not in the same league as many of you both in musical knowledge and using Finale. However, it seems to me strange that a program that gets used to score movies, operas, and any other type of music and is held by many to be a gold standard in computer notation has to rely on 3rd parties to do what I would have thought a top product would do out of the box.
I may be wrong, but my impression is that a plugin cannot extend a program's basic functionality, it can merely automate features that are already available. However, when a program designer/programmer listens to user requests, and the person in question in not a professional composer, arranger or whatever, and hence lack the practical experience of a pro's workflow, features tend to be implemented without a strong emphasis on speed and efficiency. Plugins, mostly developed by power users and musical pros rectify this by speeding up tedious and repetitive operations. Finale is certainly the current gold standard. It doesn't rely on plugins, but the plugins make the workflow much more pleasant for people using it for hours daily.
(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> v.25) using 2012c & v.25
Cubase 8.5 Pro & Reaper - Vienna Ensemble Pro - Ircam SPAT - Hauptwerk 4 - (Overture 5) - Dorico
Libraries: VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Xsample, Embertone, Wallander, Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, EWQL +++
Garritan Steinway - Garritan CFX pianos
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Juraj Bartos
Registered Member
 
Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 492
| Posted 10/25/2016 9:42 AM (GMT -6) | | Plug-ins are essential. Imagine Pro Tools without third party plug-ins for instance.
TGTools are great, I bought them immediately when they were available, paid for 64 bit upgrade, as well.
Same with Patterson plug-ins and I donated Jari Williamson great work and I am desperately waiting for 64 bit version of his great plug-ins collection. If it is available, I am ready to donate again.
Juraj Bartos, www.serenaders.sk
Finale 2001-2012c, Finale 2014.5, Finale 25
Tobias Giesen TGTools, Patterson Plugins, Jari Williamsson Plugins
Pro Tools 11.3.1, Waves Platinum, Sibelius 7,
MacBook Pro 15" 2,6 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.10.5 (retina with SSD HD)
Korg Micro Key 61/49/25, M-Audio Keystation Mini 32
Finale 2014d, StaffPad
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John Moody
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 249
| Posted 10/28/2016 3:41 AM (GMT -6) | | "jange" was just on here a few weeks ago advertising some of his new fonts. Dr. Wiggy also said the Jari Williamson plugins are just about ready, however, I just went to where I think the plugins are, and it doesn't look like there is any new plugin. It seems to me that a timely release of this plugin would make many Finale users just forget about Dorico. I've been VERY interested in Dorico, but with all the complaints with the release, I am in no rush. If this "Elbound" plugin were released well before a second update to Dorico I think that would be pretty cool! I'm also hoping the Jari Williamson plugins are ready soon, so, I don't have to keep Finale 2014 on my computer. Finale 25.1 is working great for me with their latest update. I can't wait to have the full functionality of all the extra plugins!
John | | Back to Top | |
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jange
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 53
| Posted 11/15/2016 11:24 AM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for mentioning my upcoming Elbsound Finale plugins.
The plugins were indeed all developed with JW Lua which runs in Jari Williamsson's plugin environment for Finale.
JW Lua is in beta state, so I still have to wait for a few fixes until the plugins can be finally released.
These fixes mainly address the usability of the plugins (i.e. the user dialogs, installation and fixes of unexpected behaviours/crashes in JW Lua).
I asked MM in 2015 to provide me with their own plugin kit for Finale (i.e. what Jari, Tobias and Robert still use) and showed them my demos from the homepage.
But they do not support any new plugin developers. That's why the project has unfortunately been delayed for more than a year now as there have been no updates to JW Lua in 2016.
If you want to support the JW Lua project, please make a Paypal donation to Jari.
The Perfect Layout functionality described on my homepage already works good - most of it has been developed two years ago and is already in use since then in a very professional environment serving orchestras like the Gewandhausorchestra Leipzig or leading European engraving studios.
All videos and images that you find on the homepage were created with the mentioned plugins and are no fakes.
Here is a new video from the Perfect Layout plugin that I uploaded today.
It shows "Niente hairpin" creation (and also automatic dynamics and hairpin handling with the default settings of the plugin):
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNYfVVNnYgw
>I may be wrong, but my impression is that a plugin cannot extend a program's basic functionality, it can merely automate features that are already available.
That's indeed wrong. What you describe is what a macro program or language like Finalescript can do: calling existing functions that are also accessible to the user, no new functionality.
A plugin can more or less do anything: it only depends on the plugin interface and what data the main program makes accessible - in this case it's Finale PDK and Jari's JW Lua/Finale PDK Framework. In these interfaces you have nearly access to every (!) information that is also available in Finale. So you can (nearly) do anything that you want.
The main limitation is: it is still a plugin that you have to call explicitly - it's not a background process that for example updates the layout on-the-fly while entering the notes (as in Sibelius or Dorico).
Jan
elbsound.studio
----
The Perfect Layout plugin on a demo score:
(Score view only! The Parts are processed at the same time, but differently.)
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jange
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 53
| Posted 11/15/2016 12:06 PM (GMT -6) | | I plan to have different editions for the standard and the professional user.
But everything depends on the further development of JW Lua on which I don't have much influence.
I don't know yet what kind of license management JW Lua will offer (or what is possible to implement),
so I don't know yet what it will look like in detaill.
Hopefully there will be a JW Lua update pretty soon.
Jari announced something three weeks ago on the JW Lua mailing list, but without any details.
Jan | | Back to Top | |
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