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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Vertical Collision Remover - Revisited | Forum Quick Jump
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Joseph.
Registered Member
      
Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 212
| Posted 1/2/2015 1:40 AM (GMT -6) |   | I've read up on this thing. I've searched through old threads.
No one really knows or understands this tool. I've been experimenting with it for hours and I hardly know. But I think there is a tremendous amount of power with this because as far as I know, there aren't any other plug-ins or options that respond to expressions, articulations, smart shapes, etc. when spacing things. 1. If there are, please inform me.
Often it is easy to get a pretty good system/stave spacing in the score by hand, but this tool has the power to dynamically and automatically customize each page. Each page has different spacing requirements, obviously. Distance between other staves, in general. What if those adjacent staves happen to be each belonging to another group? What about staves inside groups?
The Vertical Collision Remover can be responsive (fairly consistently) to all of these but also be responsive to density. I'm still experimenting with settings. 2. If you have any let me know.
The most annoying thing here, however, is that it doesn't work ON PARTS to my knowledge, which is a shame because that is where I find it potentially most useful.
I've been experimenting with a way of spacing part systems (after deciding how many systems per page, measures per system, etc.) before I found the Vertical Collision Remover. The method is basically to put in page breaks, set all system margins to 0, then drag each system "off" (with the STAFF tool) the pile so that nothing touches, then expand all the staves on that page to max. So if I have 7 systems on page three, for example, I take away system margins, which makes a big heap, I drag system 2 until its TOP-most element (sometimes an expression, sometimes the staff, sometimes a note) barely touches the BOTTOM-most element (note, staff, dynamic, smart shape, whatever) of system 1. Then I repeat doing the same for system 3 relative to 2, 4 to 3, 5 to 4, 6 to 5, finally 7 to 6. Once they are all barely touching, I highlight 2-7 then expand it (usually with grid on at this point) to my bottom margin.
What this does is basically adjust dynamically to staves that contain more information and are taller. It puts the same padding (white space) between each staff on the page. Usually it is subtle, occasionally essential. It's experimental. Or maybe everyone does this. I don't know.
Back to the topic. It takes a few minutes per part to do this by hand and it is strenuous. With the Vertical Collision Remover, this process takes 10% of the time (it would be 1% but the Vertical Collision Remover isn't perfect). Simply set everything to 0 (whitespace/space between). This magically takes everything to the barely touching phase. Then you explode it manually by dragging staves 2-7 (or whatever) and expanding it to the page margin.
But it doesn't work on parts... which really is a shame. If you extract parts, everything becomes a "score" and you can use it then, but not in linked parts. 3. Unless you know of a workaround? Thought I might ask before I spend the next day working on a giant macro to extract parts, edit them, and put it all back together. Hmm.
Thoughts
Grid Hotkey Interface for Finale - free, open source, and mostly... a work in progress.
forum.makemusic.com/?f=11&m=443005Post Edited (jsphweid) : 1/3/2015 2:41:17 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
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ionian
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 441
| Posted 1/5/2015 1:42 PM (GMT -6) | | I haven't used this plug in for a while. I remember using it when it first came out and I thought it was great. But there was a period when it was extremely buggy and used to crash Finale and I stopped using it and I think I became gun shy because I never went back to it. I didn't even realize it was fixed - I just stayed away from it to avoid crashes.
I'm going to start checking it out again.
The inability to use plug ins on parts has long been a very sad oversight on Finale's development and has been complained about since the first iteration of the Parts engine.
There are many third party plug ins that CAN be used on parts so it's not impossible. Unfortunately MakeMusic hasn't been able to figure out how to get their own plug ins to work on parts, which is a shame because as many third party plugs have proved, it is possible.
A plug you might want to check into would be the "Copy Parts Layout" plug from Jari Williamson. That plug has been a huge timesaver for me, especially on big band and orchestral parts.
It allows you to copy the layout from one part and apply it to other parts.
For example, in a big band chart, the trumpet parts are generally laid out the same except for the notes obviously. So you spend a few minutes making the layout perfect in Trumpet 1, then you can copy that exact layout to Trumpets 2, 3, and 4. Not only does it save a huge amount of time (Laying out big band charts one at a time was one of the most tedious things I can remember), it also makes it easy for your parts to achieve that consistency that sections love when they cross reference each other's parts during a section where they're trying to work out a potential problem.
Regards,
Frank
www.frankperri.com | | Back to Top | |
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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist
Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883
| Posted 1/5/2015 1:53 PM (GMT -6) | | jsphweid said...
I've read up on this thing. I've searched through old threads.
No one really knows or understands this tool. I've been experimenting with it for hours and I hardly know. But I think there is a tremendous amount of power with this because as far as I know, there aren't any other plug-ins or options that respond to expressions, articulations, smart shapes, etc. when spacing things.
Concept is good, but as you have notated some of its limitations it is unusable really in its current form.
For me it would be somewhat better if the slider bar was replaced by a unit of measure window and its corresponding amount of adjustment window.
Mostly I stay away from it and use other plugins and tools.
Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Write Score Sound Sets, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.4
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014b
Progression, Progression 2, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, World Instruments
Smart Score Pro X , PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (4) // Windows XP Pro, 2@ Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil
BMus, MM (Musicology) | | Back to Top | |
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Joseph.
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 212
| Posted 1/7/2015 2:24 PM (GMT -6) | | Motet, I agree. It's fairly basic, at least conceptually speaking.
Wiggy, I haven't tested it on bigger scores but my settings work well when groups are clearly defined, even if it is a chamber piece with only 1 instrument in a group.
I do Process Entire Document.
Remove Vertical Collisions: checked and 20 EVPUs
Balance White Space: checked and 0 EVPUs for Systems (I handle this a special way later), 90 EVPUs between Instrument Groups, 70 EVPUs between Other Groups. On tab 2, I set it to Change as needed with can be decreased and increased both checked and keep the number of systems on each page (I make that decision beforehand). I'm just experimenting with these settings currently.
Edit: After saying all that, I will say that it doesn't seem to be the most consistent thing. Some times you want to eliminate space and it doesn't. Changing Total System Height to minimize will achieve this but then you have to run it multiple times. I'm still not sure how to approach it best. It may be best to simply crush everything first (drop all system margins and run VCR with 0 everything), then run it with ideal settings to get it perfect. I'll keep experimenting.
Grid Hotkey Interface for Finale - free, open source, and mostly... a work in progress.
forum.makemusic.com/?f=11&m=443005Post Edited (jsphweid) : 1/7/2015 1:27:53 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
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Joseph.
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 212
| Posted 1/7/2015 2:36 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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