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Zuill
"The Troll"



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Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
  		   Posted 12/2/2016 1:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The downside for MakeMusic in having users going to an off-site forum is that it means they won't be visiting the MakeMusic website as frequently. I am not sure they realize the danger in sending users away, in terms of future developments and sales of the product. I may be wrong.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.1
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



Click to send Ralph L. Bowers Jr. email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Ralph L. Bowers Jr.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883
  		   Posted 12/2/2016 1:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Flint said...
Evidence that management has no idea how their product is actually used.


One would think people like Mark Adler would point out the usefulness not only to Make Music, but the user base in general that is the old soon to be discontinued forum?

Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, Version 25.1; TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.5.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, Notion 5 (Notion 5 not really any better than 4, [Notion 6 (bought but not installed)]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), 2@ Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
  		   Posted 12/2/2016 1:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Maybe they're 'draining the swamp". We old alligators or endangered.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.1
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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bvstudios
Registered Member



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Total Posts : 156
  		   Posted 12/2/2016 3:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's a faint hope, but I have sent an email (PM) to the OP of the post over there. Perhaps if there was a flood of impassioned pleas to keep this place open and viable, the winds might change? Personally, I tend to be pessimistic about it, but you never know.

It might be worth a shot.

K M Frye




Finale 2014.5, PM 2011, 2010, 2007, 2005, 2003, 2000

GPO4, WORLD, JABB3

M-Audio, Boss JS8, Roland VSC-55 Sound Canvas, Rhodes 660 workstation, Roland MC-50 composer (yeh- it's old, but it works if you can find the floppies), Reaper 4.32
Windows 7

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
  		   Posted 12/2/2016 5:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As nice as it is to share our disappointment here, it appears the powers that be are set in there ways. I would rather they spend time fixing bugs. In checking out Finale 25, I find many of the long standing bugs still there, and even new ones to boot.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.1
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
  		   Posted 12/2/2016 6:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I just got confirmation that on the new forum, a user cannot delete his/her own post. So, if you post something and then decide you made a mistake, you can delete the contents and leave it blank, but cannot delete the post. That is silly and shortsighted, in my opinion. Maybe there is a reason for that behavior, but not one I can imagine.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.1
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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Total Posts : 2659
  		   Posted 12/2/2016 9:49 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This is ridiculous. There are numerous companies that offer transferring from one to another forum web application, including private messages, hashed login passwords, attachments...
And there are many very good forum web applications with amazing features. WHY WAS NOT THAT AN OPTION, ADAM?
Zendesk feels like ....twitter.
I think MM wants to get rid of "illegal users", that is fine, but that doesn't solve anything.



Finale 2014.5 • OS X: Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM

Post Edited (OCTO.) : 12/2/2016 9:38:44 PM (GMT-6)

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Ron.
Composer



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Total Posts : 8828
  		   Posted 12/2/2016 10:45 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OCTO. said...
....
I think MM wants to get rid of "illegal users", that is fine, but that doesn't solve anything.


What "illegal users" and how does getting rid of this forum help get rid of them? The last time we had a user here admit he was using a bootleg version was more than 10 years ago and he was driven out of the forum.

Finale 25.1

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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Total Posts : 2659
  		   Posted 12/2/2016 11:49 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Illegal users that use pirated software I mean. Now you can't participate at Zendesk help if not logged in via Make music account.



Finale 2014.5 • OS X: Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 12:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can't you create an account without purchasing anything?

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.1
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to OCTO.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 2:26 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't know. I have already my account.



Finale 2014.5 • OS X: Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM

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Dave Lang
Registered Member

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Total Posts : 364
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 3:35 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
modern capitalism - no pride in craft, no vision, just arrogance and short sighted striving for money

MacBook Pro Retina 15" (late 2013), OSX 10.11.6, Finale 2014.5, Finale 25

Post Edited (Dave Lang) : 12/3/2016 2:45:53 AM (GMT-6)

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Ron.
Composer



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Total Posts : 8828
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 7:45 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
Can't you create an account without purchasing anything?

Zuill


I did. I have an account under a fake name. Just to show it can be done.

Finale 25.1

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

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Knut
Registered Member

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Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 601
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 8:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dave Lang said...
modern capitalism - no pride in craft, no vision, just arrogance and short sighted striving for money


…or merely capitalism by it's very nature. I mean, why would anyone strive for excellence to make money if they didn't have to? And if they did, capitalism certainly has nothing to do with it. Seems to me that most of us are still going to pay for future Finale upgrades, which in turn gives MM little reason to change their ways.

Those of us content with the development of Dorico might have an alternative in the relatively short term, but by the looks of it, this does not include many of the long term Finale users on this board.

I must say, though, that whatever you may think of Dorico, their customer treatment is pretty exceptional, and a total opposite of MMs conduct. The development team is highly active on the official forum, helping costumers solve their problems directly. And the list of issues and bugs fixed in the recently released update is very impressive, compared to your average Finale upgrade.

With all that said, I have no doubt that if MM turns a blind eye to their customer's wishes and doesn't learn from the successful conduct of their competitors, it will inevitably mean their demise in the long term.

13" MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz. Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, Apogee Duet 2, Samsung SyncMaster 245b
OSX 10.9.5, Finale 2011c and 2014b (not using it yet) w/GPO & JABB, Patterson Plug-Ins, TG-Tools and QuickKeys 4; Sibelius 6, Logic Pro X, Adobe CS3, FontLab Studio 4, FontExplorer X Pro 3

Post Edited (Knut) : 12/3/2016 10:04:11 AM (GMT-6)

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Derrek
Registered Member

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Total Posts : 2347
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 11:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron. said...
Zuill said...
Can't you create an account without purchasing anything?

Zuill


I did. I have an account under a fake name. Just to show it can be done.

I am not surprised. How would MM attract prospective purchasers if they didn't allow folks who were considering a purchase to ask questions and monitor discussions?

Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum, Dorico)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

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Derrek
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Total Posts : 2347
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 11:21 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dave Lang said...
modern capitalism - no pride in craft, no vision, just arrogance and short sighted striving for money

I make a distinction between a decision I think is wrong on MM's part and ascribing malicious or anti-customer intent or a broad-brush swipe at "capitalism." Please!
Knut said...
I must say, though, that whatever you may think of Dorico, their customer treatment is pretty exceptional...

Yes, Dorico's Forum is exceptional.

Finale 2014.5, Finale 25.1 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum, Dorico)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

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David Ward
Registered Member



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Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2834
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 12:00 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Derrek said...
Dave Lang said...
modern capitalism - no pride in craft, no vision, just arrogance and short sighted striving for money
I make a distinction between a decision I think is wrong on MM's part and ascribing malicious or anti-customer intent or a broad-brush swipe at "capitalism." Please!
I would agree that one shouldn't ascribe foolishness and lack of appreciation (of value as opposed to cost &c) to -isms whether of the capital, social or any other variety. But foolish it certainly does appear to be for MM to abandon such a widely used and appreciated forum; unless, that is, they can both come up with a much more compelling reason than has so far been given, and also provide a hugely more effective and *liked* alternative than they are currently offering.

Sorry, that reads as rather pompous; but you'll get the gist…

David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2014d & 2014.5 with Mac 10.9.5 & 10.11.6
Finale 2010b with Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

Since 2001 have used F 2001, 2003, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2014

“We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.” JFK

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Knut
Registered Member

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Total Posts : 601
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 12:02 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Derrek said...
Dave Lang said...
modern capitalism - no pride in craft, no vision, just arrogance and short sighted striving for money

I make a distinction between a decision I think is wrong on MM's part and ascribing malicious or anti-customer intent or a broad-brush swipe at "capitalism." Please!


Considering how the world seems to work nowadays, or perhaps how it's actually always been, I have no trouble understanding Dave's outburst of frustration, however oversimplified it may have been. MM has given us more than one reason in later years to doubt their sincerity with regard to quality and customer service, and I don't think the reaction was solely directed at the decision to close these boards.

I do recognize, however, that this is hardly the place for political discussion, and my replies are not an attempt at such.

13" MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz. Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, Apogee Duet 2, Samsung SyncMaster 245b
OSX 10.9.5, Finale 2011c and 2014b (not using it yet) w/GPO & JABB, Patterson Plug-Ins, TG-Tools and QuickKeys 4; Sibelius 6, Logic Pro X, Adobe CS3, FontLab Studio 4, FontExplorer X Pro 3

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bvstudios
Registered Member



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  		   Posted 12/3/2016 2:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's rathr telling to me that since I posted what amounts to a rant on the soon-to-be-only-official forum, there has not been a single response, positive or negative, to my words.

When that is compared to the reaction here and on the Mac side, it has to say something about the "new" forum.

K M Frye




Finale 2014.5, PM 2011, 2010, 2007, 2005, 2003, 2000

GPO4, WORLD, JABB3

M-Audio, Boss JS8, Roland VSC-55 Sound Canvas, Rhodes 660 workstation, Roland MC-50 composer (yeh- it's old, but it works if you can find the floppies), Reaper 4.32
Windows 7

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



Click to send Ralph L. Bowers Jr. email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Ralph L. Bowers Jr.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 3:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
bvstudios said...
It's rathr telling to me that since I posted what amounts to a rant on the soon-to-be-only-official forum, there has not been a single response, positive or negative, to my words.

When that is compared to the reaction here and on the Mac side, it has to say something about the "new" forum.



What it tells you is that people like Adam do not fully appreciate that the new forum is substandard and lacks the necessary abilities to replace this current forum.

Also that a good quality help forum that are user community based with oversight by GOOD administrators is the best use of limited resources by companies such as Make Music.

Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, Version 25.1; TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.5.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, Notion 5 (Notion 5 not really any better than 4, [Notion 6 (bought but not installed)]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), 2@ Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

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petey forrest
Registered Member



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Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 670
  		   Posted 12/3/2016 4:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wow. Just checked that new forum. Man oh man, that's like taking away the Finale software for your scoring and being given a crayon to do your scores!!

Petey
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