Finale SmartMusic
  Home | Log In | Register | Search | Help
   
MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Is anyone trilled about the Articulation tool?  Forum Quick Jump
 
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Djard
Registered Member

Click to send Djard email.Click to visit Djard's website.Send a Private Message to DjardAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 518
  		   Posted 12/11/2016 9:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Finale's playback of the interval between the trilled note and the auxiliary note varies, depending on which of the three tools I use. Use of the one in Articulation tool has the advantage of assigning the trill to only one layer (usually) in polyphonic music, but this option is only reliable in a flat key: in a sharp key the interval is always 1-1/2 tones, regardless of the note. Has anyone else experienced this inconsistency? Attached is what I get in a document with a default library.

Djard
Finale 2012


Image Attachment :
Image Preview
Trill Table.jpg   211KB (image/jpeg)
This image has been viewed 325 time(s).
Back to Top

Michel R. E.
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Michel R. E.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
  		   Posted 12/11/2016 10:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
the trill tool works quite well,as far as I'm concerned.
it takes into account the key signature, and whatever note happens to be following the trilled note.

I rarely use the smartshape trill, though I've made my own for printing purposes.

One important thing to remember is that while Finale really does have great playback for a notation program, it is after all first and foremost a notation program.
So if you give it things too complex to handle it will have difficulty.

This is why I never bother with making my printing score playback correctly. I always have a second file for playback where I can notate things in such a manner as Finale will play them correctly. correct playback notation isn't necessarily correct printing notation.

Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
  		   Posted 12/11/2016 11:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Djard,

Since the results I get are all correct, it might be that we need to see a sample file of all the examples in the chart you made so we can test the file to see what's up.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Back to Top

Djard
Registered Member

Click to send Djard email.Click to visit Djard's website.Send a Private Message to DjardAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 518
  		   Posted 12/12/2016 2:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks Michel for reminding me of the great option to create a print document separately from a playback document. In my experience, Finale does not accommodate the needs of a classical guitarist well, so I'm sure your suggestion will work nicely.

I attach a file that shows use of the Trill Extension tool augmenting the auxiliary note in the second measure, essentially and erroneously turning a tr to a tr#. Too bad, for being able to assign a trill to a specific layer can be handy in a polyphonic score.

It is difficult for me to believe that only my copy of Finale has this bug.

Djard
Finale 2012

Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
  		   Posted 12/12/2016 10:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't see the file. Did you attach it?

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Back to Top

Djard
Registered Member

Click to send Djard email.Click to visit Djard's website.Send a Private Message to DjardAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 518
  		   Posted 12/12/2016 5:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oops! I must have forgot.

Note also that the Articulation option (second measure) sounds louder. But this can be attenuated with a hidden dynamic marking. The use of the articulation tool always has the interval at 1-1/2 tones, regardless of the note or key, except in a key with flats.

Djard
Finale 2012



File Attachment :
Trill.mus   40KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 359 time(s).
Back to Top

Motet
Isorhythmic



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MotetAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
  		   Posted 12/12/2016 9:31 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How did you draw the wavy line in the second measure? If I delete it and redraw it with the first wavy line smart shape, it plays correctly.

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Back to Top

Djard
Registered Member

Click to send Djard email.Click to visit Djard's website.Send a Private Message to DjardAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 518
  		   Posted 12/13/2016 5:18 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In the second measure, I added the trill sign with the articulation tool, which does not include a wavy line nor playback; so I added the wavy line, using the Trill Extension tool in Smartshape palette.

This method allows restricting the trill to a selected layer, often essential in polyphonic music; but it seems the Trill Extension tool erroneously augments the interval between the main note and the auxiliary note.

I have not had occasion to trill with an interval greater than 1-1/2 tones. I'm wondering if Finale is capable of, say, trilling with an intervsl of a fourth or fifth.

Djard
Finale 2012

Back to Top

Michel R. E.
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Michel R. E.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
  		   Posted 12/13/2016 8:56 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
of course it can: it's called a tremolo.

I suspect part of your problem is that when you put both the articulation AND the smartshape finale tries to interpret BOTH trills, which gives the erroneous additive intervals.

I think you will get better results if you create smartshape trills with extensions than trying to mix articulations with smartshapes.

Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
  		   Posted 12/13/2016 11:19 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Unfortunately HP does get confused when multiple layers are present. So, the Smart Shape can't be used, as it is not assigned to a layer. I gave a rather good workaround in the other thread about this, and it solved the problem.

The workaround involved using the Articulation trill (which was already being done) with an Articulation wavy line, which doesn't trigger trilling in other layers. The Smart Shape extension doesn't work properly with mixed layers, as I previously stated.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Back to Top

Motet
Isorhythmic



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MotetAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
  		   Posted 12/13/2016 11:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As I said, I got the posted example to work by using a plain wavy line. Is there something wrong with that solution?

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, 32-bit
MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
  		   Posted 12/13/2016 11:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
For this file, no. I was speaking to the bigger issue, since Djard does a lot of music with multiple layers. I get the file to work properly as well, but the workaround I posted on the other topic works to avoid affecting other Layers.

Zuill

P.S.: The attached uses the ready-made articulation that is a trill extension as well, but is attached to the note, thus the layer, and avoids interacting with other layers.

P.P.S.: The second file shows how the Smart Shape isn't so smart, as it favors Layer 1. I used the Articulation tr and Articulation extension in measure 2 to make sure the Layer 2 note was trilling, not Layer 1.

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.2
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 12/13/2016 10:45:14 AM (GMT-6)



File Attachment :
Trill Revised 2.mus   40KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 346 time(s).

File Attachment :
Trill Revised 3.mus   40KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 333 time(s).
Back to Top

Djard
Registered Member

Click to send Djard email.Click to visit Djard's website.Send a Private Message to DjardAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 518
  		   Posted 12/14/2016 8:29 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I cannot thank you folks enough. I found each suggestion very helpful.

Djard
Finale 2012

Back to Top
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
   
Forum Information
Currently it is Tuesday, December 19, 2023 6:03 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2023

Need Support? | Forum Help Manual