MakeMusic Forum

Home | Log In | Register | Search | Help

MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Drag&drop copy problem

Forum Quick Jump

[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

amagalma
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 26

Posted 2/23/2015 10:04 AM (GMT -6)

Hello! :)

I experience the problem you see in the .gif image, when copying with drag&drop. Why is that? How can I avoid it? Is there a way to make Finale "quantize" my selections?
Finale 2014 here..

Thank you in advance for your help! :)

Image Attachment :
Image Preview

copy bug.gif 156KB (image/gif)

This image has been viewed 192 time(s).

Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 2/23/2015 10:17 AM (GMT -6)

That's why I don't use "drag and drop." Ctl-C and Ctl-V are accurate.

Finale 2014c with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

violin and flamenco guitar, composer

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 2/23/2015 10:49 AM (GMT -6)

It's not a bug; it's poor placement of either the selection or the destination. Practice, grasshopper, practice!

Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014d, on Yosemite 10.10.1
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

amagalma
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 26

Posted 2/23/2015 10:52 AM (GMT -6)

Thank you both for your answers! :)

The same thing happens with Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V... The problem lies in the fact that the selection looks - but is NOT - "quantized". Is there any setting for this? Because no amount of practice seems to make me achieve the desired effect!

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/23/2015 11:24 AM (GMT -6)

There are situations that cause this, as discussed recently in another thread. It might not be your fault. Can you post a sample file for us to examine for the problem? Not everything in Finale is due to user error.

Zuill

P.S.: Specifically, the bug (yes, a real bug) has to do with Composite Meter. What is the meter in your example?

P.P.S.: Here's the recent thread http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=5&m=447802&g=447946#m447946

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

~~Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3~~, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 2/23/2015 10:31:34 AM (GMT-6)

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 2/23/2015 11:43 AM (GMT -6)

It could also be an issue with the triplet in the destination staff. As Zuill says, a file would help.

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/23/2015 11:44 AM (GMT -6)

Mike Rosen said...
It's not a bug; it's poor placement of either the selection or the destination. Practice, grasshopper, practice!

Actually, the look as seen in the gif shows exactly the same results caused by the bug I recently reported regarding copy/paste and Composite Meter. No matter how careful one is, the bug will bite. it is not due to user error. I am guessing you may have forgotten about the recent thread on this very matter. If you see my other post, I have a link there to remind everyone that there is a real bug. And it is not new to 2014.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 2/23/2015 12:26 PM (GMT -6)

Ctrl-C/V is no more accurate than dragging--Finale displays a box when dragging to show you where it's aligned.

Yes, it looks from the beaming that this is mixed twos and threes per that other thread.

Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 2/23/2015 12:53 PM (GMT -6)

Motet said...
Ctrl-C/V is no more accurate than dragging--Finale displays a box when dragging to show you where it's aligned.

Yes, it looks from the beaming that this is mixed twos and threes per that other thread.

Fine, but it works for me. I never wind up with 1/64th note offsets when using Ctl-C and Ctl-V, though I usually do when dragging and dropping.

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/23/2015 12:56 PM (GMT -6)

Ron, this is due to a bug having to do with Composite Meters. You would get the same result with Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V with this bug. Would you be willing to try, just to help us troubleshoot the bug?

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Ron.
Composer

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828

Posted 2/23/2015 1:24 PM (GMT -6)

I just did it four times in a 6/8 section, copying the 2nd half of the measure and the first half, then using Ctl-C and Ctl-V. No 1/64th misalignments.

Image Attachment :
Image Preview

copy_paste.png 237KB (image/png)

This image has been viewed 191 time(s).

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/23/2015 1:36 PM (GMT -6)

I guess you didn't see the other thread. It has nothing to do with 6/8. It has to do with Composite Meters that start with a 2 group. Try 7/8 divided 2+2+3 and see what happens. I have a file that show that using 2+2+3 doesn't work, but straight 7/8 does. Have you read the thread and tried my demo file? Try a copy/paste from the top staff to the bottom, copying beats 3 and 4 (beamed 8ths) in bar 2 and be surprised.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 2/23/2015 12:44:51 PM (GMT-6)

File Attachment :
Copy Paste Demo 7-8 time.mus 41KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 292 time(s).

amagalma
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 26

Posted 2/23/2015 1:57 PM (GMT -6)

Zuill, you are right! So, this is a bug!...

I was using a compound meter of 16/8 (2+2+2+3+2+2+3).

I am not in front of the PC now to post an example file, but anyway this seems to be a known bug...
Any way to avoid it? Any workaround?

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/23/2015 1:59 PM (GMT -6)

Read my other thread and see if my workaround gets you by. It's more work in one way but less in another.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

amagalma
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 26

Posted 2/23/2015 3:55 PM (GMT -6)

Just found the thread... So, define 3 as 2+1.. In my score's case: 2+2+2+2+1+2+2+2+1
I 'll try it... Cheers!

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/23/2015 7:46 PM (GMT -6)

~~I think the problem comes when 2 is the first group, so maybe you can make it 1+1+2+2+3+2+2+3?~~

Forget that. It doesn't work right. Just make it 16/8 and do all the beaming manually. I wish it was easier. I hope they fix this, as it is not good programming.

Instead of manually beaming, I suppose you could wait until you're all done, and then rebeam to the Composite Meter.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 2/23/2015 6:52:17 PM (GMT-6)

Joseph.
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 212

Posted 2/23/2015 11:14 PM (GMT -6)

MakeMusic and I shot back and forth a few emails over this, in relation to the buggy-ness with implode in these weird compound meters. The quantization was the issue for most of my issues. I wonder if changing the quanization will make better results?

Grid Hotkey Interface for Finale - free, open source, and mostly... a work in progress.
forum.makemusic.com/?f=11&m=443005

Another macro to make booklets effortlessly...
forum.makemusic.com/?f=5&m=448667

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/24/2015 10:45 AM (GMT -6)

This bug has nothing to do with quantization settings. Sorry. It is a programming error that needs fixing.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/24/2015 11:00 AM (GMT -6)

I just submitted a case to MakeMusic. This needs to be fixed. I entered straight 8ths in 7/8 (2+2+3), then copy pasted with disastrous results. This should not be.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist

Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883

Posted 2/24/2015 11:24 AM (GMT -6)

Zuill said...
I just submitted a case to MakeMusic. This needs to be fixed. I entered straight 8ths in 7/8 (2+2+3), then copy pasted with disastrous results. This should not be.

Zuill

This has been a very enlightening thread (and your link to the other) Zuill.
As an experiment I created a trio of brass in composite meter of 7/4 (2+2+3). I left one of the staves measure uncompleted with its note entries and when I attempted a playback of what I had it kept crashing Finale.

I am not at home right now to upload the musx. file, but in the mean time has anyone else experienced crashing because of composite meters?

Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Write Score Sound Sets, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.4
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, World Instruments
Smart Score Pro X , PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (4) // Windows XP Pro, 2@ Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/25/2015 3:31 PM (GMT -6)

I received a response back from MakeMusic that there is a problem when a Composite Meter starts with a 2 group. They have flagged it to be addressed.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

amagalma
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 26

Posted 2/26/2015 3:42 PM (GMT -6)

Thanks! Good job! :)

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/26/2015 3:49 PM (GMT -6)

After more experimentation (trying to circumvent the bug), I discovered many situations that trigger the bug. I tried 1+1+1.5/4, and then .5+.5+.75/2, and all of them trigger the bug. I didn't report the latter trials to support, as I would figure curing the basic 2+2+3/8 would solve all of them. I tried, but to no avail. And again, quantization or "careless dragging" are not the issues.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist

Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883

Posted 2/26/2015 4:41 PM (GMT -6)

Zuill said...
After more experimentation (trying to circumvent the bug), I discovered many situations that trigger the bug. I tried 1+1+1.5/4, and then .5+.5+.75/2, and all of them trigger the bug. I didn't report the latter trials to support, as I would figure curing the basic 2+2+3/8 would solve all of them. I tried, but to no avail. And again, quantization or "careless dragging" are not the issues.

Zuill

Could this be an easy fix for Finale code writers or is it VERY difficult to fix this particular bug???

The handling of composite meters may not get fixed........,other's here with programing backgrounds may be able to answer whether it may get corrected or not?

Zuill, thanks for reporting and pushing for a fix on this.

Forum Information

Currently it is Tuesday, December 19, 2023 7:54 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads

Need Support? | Forum Help Manual