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TheMaster
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 195

Posted 3/17/2005 5:45 PM (GMT -6)

Dave BTW said...
I suspect that "TheMaster's" assumption is fundamentally incorrect. He is assuming that Finale stores data internally as MIDI data or at least something that is tied to it, and therefore is limited by the 7-bit 128-steps granularity or quantization that MIDI uses.

No, at all. So far, I am finnishing the very high level of music and computer education to understand such program as "only" MIDI or "only" something else.
The point are other things. So far, as I see, neither Sibelius, or any other music engraving program is better in the issue I am talking about.

I dream about this thing:
I start Finale.
There is "document wizard" asking me:
do you want to start a score with powefull graphic editor
or do you want start a score with powerfull MIDI editor? (choose, click)

So far, as I told, I will use Finale. It works for me fine, sometimes very slow, and I am enough young to wait for better days.

Dainis
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 61

Posted 3/23/2005 4:17 PM (GMT -6)

Sent to Boosey and Hawkes today:

*******************************************
Dear Boosey and Hawkes Team,

I am writing to ask permission to use the section of Maxwell Davies "Eight Songs for a Mad King" (where the staves form the bars of a bird cage) for a Finale Music Notation Software Challenge that developed out of the following thread at Finale's forums: http://www.finalemusic.com/forum/default.aspx?f=5&p=1&m=105871.

I plan to host the step-by-step procedure for creating the score excerpt at www.composersforum.net, which is currently inactive. However, this "notation challenge" is a wonderful opportunity to kick-off the site and help composers around the world notate their music more effectively.

Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated and duly acknowledged.

Many thanks,
Dainis W. Michel

PS -- If we would need the composer's permission, would it be possible for your team to put me in touch with Mr. Maxwell Davies, or forward a letter to him?
*******************************************

Any favorite George Crumb sections? Other excerpts? Also, I think it's a good idea to host this "Finale Challenge" elsewhere, as it might be fun to see if some Sibelius buffs would like to take the same "challenge," and then we could all compare notes on which program is easier, and what procedures were a particular pain in the heebeegeebies.

Peace,
Dainis

not myself
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 131

Posted 3/23/2005 9:29 PM (GMT -6)

Zuill said...
Although MakeMusic took a rather distasteful approach to a poster mentioning Lilypond and Linux, I think the future for open source programs of any kind (including music notation) is at hand. Soon there will be many programs available that can be expanded and improved upon by anyone, thus, anything one wants will be easily available. At that point, a person would not be stuck with the limited resources now available. As for me, Finale suits my needs well. But for the more graphic intensive notation, open source will provide the means to the end.

Zuill

open source programs don't make sense in the "real world" (whereever that is). There is no FINANCIAL incentive to write the software if you are going to give the source away. Why work hard INOVATING when you'll end up giving the entire INOVATION away for all to read and copy? "Open source" is an idea from the imaginagion of people who want the cake and recipe too; the Baker is skrewed after the first sale.

Peter West
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 4272

Posted 3/24/2005 3:04 AM (GMT -6)

Dainis
I will speak to the managing editor myself today, though you might prefer his written permission. If the composer needs to be consulted (which I doubt) I shall ask him myself. I am currently working on 7 of his pieces for Boosey, Schott and Chesters.

Time is short at present, we have 4 full scale operas in production at the moment, but I have known the piece since it was written, and I may have a copy somewhere around.

Remember, I didn't claim that all of this type of graphical notation could be set in Finale, but that Finale would be one tool in the procedure.

Peter
Music Publishing Services

*********************
Mac 1.2GHz Dual G4, 1.25GB RAM /OSX.3.8 /20 inch Cinema display and 20 inch CRT
Finale 2004c/2005a
Logic Pro 7
Yamaha P-150 Electric Piano
MIDIMAN 2x2 interface

Dainis
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 61

Posted 3/24/2005 4:17 AM (GMT -6)

Absolutely, Finale will not be the only tool used. Regarding time, we'll definitely take this at a manageable pace, as composition, teaching, and work on my doctorate have me quite engaged! Still, I have to say that this “notation challenge” sounds like a real blast.

Cheers!
Dainis

Peter West
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 4272

Posted 3/24/2005 2:40 PM (GMT -6)

I'm up for the challenge. I did a few tests today of features in Illustrator and I'm quite sure I know how I'll tackle it.

Dainis
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 61

Posted 4/1/2005 5:57 AM (GMT -6)

Haven't received word from the Boosey folks yet, I'll send them another mail.

Cheers all!
Dainis

Dainis
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 61

Posted 4/26/2005 2:22 PM (GMT -6)

Still haven't heard word, and it looks like this will be a summer project anyway.

I repaired the DB over at www.composersforum.net, which is where I'm planning on hosting this "notation challenge". Since we'll likely compare and contrast existing software, it's probably more fair to keep the discussion off of Finale's forum.

I'd be glad to read suggestions on how composersforum.net can become an interesting place for composers to go as well. I posted on our endeavor at:

http://composersforum.net/discuss/index.php?s=16c38b70b569e171271a0d65897b7b4c&act=ST&f=11&t=8

Wishing everyone well!
Dainis

Dainis
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 61

Posted 12/5/2005 11:10 AM (GMT -6)

Hi all, I'd like to revive the notation challenge...I made numerous attempts to contact Boosey, and they did not respond. Maybe a call would be best...how should we approach this?

I've been out of the loop here at this forum, yet the idea of the notation challenge is still very appealing to me.

Sincerely,
Dainis W. Michel

I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: http://www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

Fredson
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 3

Posted 12/7/2005 5:17 PM (GMT -6)

I just read this thread, I like the idea and would be interested in the results - I would suggest that for these purposes, the use of a short enough excerpt from any score is legal, under the "Fair Use" doctrine. See the "four factors" analysis here:

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Dainis
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 61

Posted 3/11/2006 2:41 PM (GMT -6)

Would anyone like to resurrect the notation challenge of re-creating Maxwell Davies' score...maybe this upcoming summer...a year later is better than never, no?

I couldn't find that old post about the notation challenges...

Best to you all!
Dainis

I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

gehentogo
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 18

Posted 3/13/2006 7:26 AM (GMT -6)

Where can we get it, and what are the rules?

Currently Finale 2005b

Peter West
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 4272

Posted 3/13/2006 11:14 AM (GMT -6)

Here's half a page of the Barry Guy score I mentioned

This new pdf from an old file (1997) has caused a couple of font character substitutions. You'll get the idea anyway...

Peter
Music Publishing Services

*********************
Mac 1.2GHz Dual G4, 1.25GB RAM /OSX.4.4 /20 inch CRT
Finale 2006
Logic Pro 7.1
Yamaha P-150 Electric Piano
MIDIMAN 2x2 interface
berhinger BCF2000 and BCR 2000

File Attachment :
Page 07.pdf 86KB (application/pdf)

This file has been downloaded 385 time(s).

Dainis
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 61

Posted 3/20/2006 11:33 AM (GMT -6)

The Barry Guy score seems OK, I particularly like the solo flute line. Still, I'd really love to do Maxwell Davies, or something a bit more "involved." I'm glad we're taking our time with this...even though it didn't come together last summer, I'm confident we'll put something together for this summer.

What do you think?

--Dainis

I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

Dainis
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 61

Posted 4/8/2006 11:24 AM (GMT -6)

Peter,

Do you think we should do Barry Guy to start?

Best,
Dainis

I provide composition and songwriting resources
at: www.music-composition-studio.com
The site is young and growing, and I welcome
your feedback!

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