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Fred G. Unn
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 1268

Posted 5/23/2013 8:02 AM (GMT -6)

Has anyone checked this out yet?
blog.steinberg.net/2013/05/introducing-bravura-music-font/

Sounds like it might need some fiddling to work with Finale since according to the article Finale doesn't support SMuFL but I can imagine it could be done with Document Options/Notes and Rests/Notehead Characters. The sample they provided looks interesting anyway. I'll try downloading it tonight.

Bill Reed
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1203

Posted 5/23/2013 8:09 AM (GMT -6)

SMuFL is something they've just created, so no one supports it yet...

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OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 5/23/2013 10:32 AM (GMT -6)

It looks a bit like Maestro but more round.

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Michael Cook
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1998
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Posted 5/23/2013 11:51 AM (GMT -6)

I downloaded the pdf page. I like the "bold" look: it looks very close to some of my favourite engraved scores of the last century.

It doesn't have any ASCII characters, just ones in the parts of Unicode allocated to musical notation and to "Private Use". I cannot get Finale 2012 on Mac to recognise it. It shows up in other apps (Pages, for instance), but in Mac Finale it simply isn't in the font menu.

Michael Cook
Finale 3.0 - 2012
Mac OS 10.8.2

Post Edited (Michael Cook) : 5/23/2013 11:58:09 AM (GMT-5)

Flint
silly bear

Date Joined Oct 2006
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Posted 5/23/2013 12:41 PM (GMT -6)

It's pretty, though I think I'd eventually feel like it was "shouting" at me as it is quite a bold font (if that makes any sense...).

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If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 5/23/2013 1:06 PM (GMT -6)

Does look a bit thick.

But I suspect this is the birth of whatever new notation program they have cooking.

FWIW: I've spent a lot of time an effort mucking about trying different music fonts, and actually, the difference between them is often not worth bothering about, when compared to what you can achieve by altering settings and spacing in Finale. There's very little to dislike about MAestro -- except the dynamics, which I'm starting to replace with a text font.

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Post Edited (Wiggy) : 5/23/2013 1:12:03 PM (GMT-5)

Fred G. Unn
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 1268

Posted 5/23/2013 1:55 PM (GMT -6)

Wiggy said...
There's very little to dislike about MAestro -- except the dynamics, which I'm starting to replace with a text font.

Well, I definitely disagree with you on that one. I think the Maestro rests are pretty terrible. The quarter rest doesn't have enough of an opening above the second line. (What's the typographic term, counter?) The whole rest also extends past the mid-point of the space. I also prefer the Maestro Wide noteheads to the regular Maestro. Wasn't Maestro based on the London printings of Boosey & Hawkes from the first half of the 20th century? Parts of it are good, parts of it aren't which is why I end up using a hodgepodge of fonts in my default. Just my $0.02.

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 5/23/2013 1:59 PM (GMT -6)

It looks like they are trying to re-invent the wheel, and make SMuFL the new standard. Good luck with that.

In any case, Bravura appears to be, once it is able to be used by programs like Finale or ?, that it is just another font, rather than a new model. Maybe I'm wrong.

Zuill

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Motet
Isorhythmic

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849

Posted 5/23/2013 2:09 PM (GMT -6)

I suspect Wiggy's got it--a strings-free font for the Sibelius ex-pats to use with their new program.

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Michael Cook
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 2526

Posted 5/23/2013 2:28 PM (GMT -6)

Zuill said...
It looks like they are trying to re-invent the wheel, and make SMuFL the new standard. Good luck with that.

The thing is, there isn't a standard format for music fonts. It would be a good thing if there were. Steinberg is clearly doing two things here:

1: Create a new font to use with the new notation program.
2: Try to define a standard for musical characters in a Unicode font in addition to the 220 characters already specified in Unicode under "Musical Notation".

Creating a new font is to be expected when they are working on a brand new notation program. As to defining a standard for Unicode, I'm all for it, but it would be better if the creators of the major notation programs could work together.

Michael Cook
Finale 3.0 - 2012
Mac OS 10.8.2

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 5/23/2013 2:38 PM (GMT -6)

As the keyboard manufacturers did when the MIDI protocol was developed. Can we imagine what it would be like had that not happened? I know there are some differences, especially now that MIDI has gotten so complicated. However, it is a fairly good system. I guess I thought what was happening was like someone trying to invent a new notation system, with an entirely different staff setup, as we have bantered about with lately on the forum. I am still thinking that it will just be another proprietary setup that will just add another different way of doing things, hoping people will jump ship and cross over.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 5/23/2013 2:43 PM (GMT -6)

Fred G. Unn said...
Well, I definitely disagree with you on that one. I think the Maestro rests are pretty terrible.

Perhaps, but I find there is always something in every font that is slightly disagreeable. Short of creating a custom font with the best bits from every font, I find that one font is pretty much as good as another. I guess that's the point I'm making.

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Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 5/23/2013 2:48 PM (GMT -6)

I agree with that. I can look at a myriad of published music and find something good and bad about each. In fact, as I am sight reading, I am often distracted wondering how I would have done things differently, or how I could improve the appearance. It is a dangerous hobby, especially when I am accompanying a choir. It is hard to separate the art of engraving from the art of performing.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

OCTO.
The radical answers.

Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2659

Posted 5/23/2013 5:14 PM (GMT -6)

The problem with all this fonts is that they appear exactly the same all the time.
Take any hand engraved score and a pleasant variation is obvious.

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Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 5/23/2013 5:56 PM (GMT -6)

I remember when drum machines came out. Everybody was happy that the beats were so perfect. Too perfect, actually. So they put in randomization paramaters. Basiclly, we wanted to go back to the inconsistencies of a live drummer (ala Human Playback). Amazing how boring perfection can be.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Fred G. Unn
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 1268

Posted 5/23/2013 5:59 PM (GMT -6)

Michael Cook said...
As to defining a standard for Unicode, I'm all for it, but it would be better if the creators of the major notation programs could work together.

+1. I doubt it will happen but a uniform standard between the major players would really be great.

Count of Monte Verdi
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 615

Posted 5/23/2013 10:20 PM (GMT -6)

I like the thicker noteheads - thicker stems, however, do clog the overall picture. Anyway, yet another font - we'll see how the apps will handle it. Steinberg is a good company, maybe they produce a good notation software, too.

JustinP
Senior Product Manager

Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 822

Posted 5/24/2013 8:10 AM (GMT -6)

Fred G. Unn said...
I doubt it will happen but a uniform standard between the major players would really be great.

I wouldn't go that far

. A uniform standard that is agreeable to developers can greatly improve customer's interactions with all types of notation software.

Justin Phillips
Senior Product Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods

Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 12628

Posted 5/25/2013 5:28 AM (GMT -6)

Good luck converting legacy documents using the old 8-bit character positions to a new font using some new Unicode range of symbols.

"This is me helping."

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Bill Reed
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1203

Posted 5/28/2013 2:21 PM (GMT -6)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kXWyW0Jojs

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liuyelian
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2013
Total Posts : 3

Posted 5/29/2013 12:15 AM (GMT -6)

I also prefer the Maestro Wide noteheads to the regular Maestro. Wasn't Maestro based on the London printings of Boosey & Hawkes from the first half of the 20th century?

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Fred G. Unn
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 1268

Posted 5/29/2013 7:45 AM (GMT -6)

Bill Reed said...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kXWyW0Jojs

Interesting video. Sorta makes you wonder what MM could do if they weren't strapped to so much older code.

Derrek
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347

Posted 5/29/2013 10:51 AM (GMT -6)

Maybe they're not.

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Fred G. Unn
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 1268

Posted 5/29/2013 1:49 PM (GMT -6)

Derrek said...
Maybe they're not.

Maybe not, but from listening to that video I thought it was clear that the Sibelius team struggled with older code and Finale certainly pre-dates Sibelius. I must admit, I'm curious what they come up with. I wonder if MM ever considered doing what Adobe did with Pagemaker. Adobe still supports PageMaker and even still sells it even though it hasn't been updated since 2001. They created InDesign from the ground up rather than continue to develop PageMaker. I'm not necessarily advocating this, but I am curious what MM would do if they started back at the design stage with a notation product now. Finale is over 25 years old.

The video was interesting, especially when Daniel was talking about the technological developments that haven't been incorporated into Finale or Sibelius, such as font handling, multi-core processors, etc. I'm sure 1.0 will have problems but whatever they come up with has the potential to be real competition for MM. We'll see. They haven't even come up with a name for their product yet so they have a lloonngg way to go.

Fred G. Unn
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 1268

Posted 5/29/2013 2:03 PM (GMT -6)

He mentioned Android and iOS compatibility too. One thing he didn't mention, is the inevitable patent lawsuit that Avid will bring against them. It sounded like Steinberg offered them the job before they were officially gone from Avid so it's possible they didn't have to sign any non-competitive agreement as part of a severance. I'm sure Avid had them sign something like that when they bought the company though. I can't imagine there's any way Avid will let them bring this to market without some sort of fight.

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