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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Forcing Clef To Appear | Forum Quick Jump
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N. Grossingink
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991
| Posted 9/30/2003 7:22 AM (GMT -6) |   |
I have a Fakebook-style document where
the clef is set to appear on the first staff
only. How do you force the display of a
clef, say further down the page or on page
2?
Thanks!
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GT
It was some other guy.
Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1434
| Posted 9/30/2003 7:30 AM (GMT -6) | |
With a Staff Style, I'd guess.
Cheers,
Gary
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N. Grossingink
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991
| Posted 9/30/2003 8:39 AM (GMT -6) | |
Thanks Gary - staff styles weren't doing it
for me but I found another way. Create a
clef change for that measure only but
change to the same clef - check "always
show" in the dialog box.
N.
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Jetcopy
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2000
Total Posts : 4795
| Posted 9/30/2003 8:45 AM (GMT -6) | |
Under document options, keys signatures, there's
an option to check which will display the clef only
on the top staff of each page.
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GT
It was some other guy.
Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1434
| Posted 9/30/2003 12:24 PM (GMT -6) | |
Two good bits of information there.
Thanks N. and Anon. (If that is indeed your name.)
;-)
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sPretzel
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 309
| Posted 11/16/2009 8:28 PM (GMT -6) | | Reviving this thread. I want to force the clef to display in a given measure, even though there is no clef change. I have tried what is indicated here and the clef sign does not want to show (it only displays at the beginning of the staff). How do I go about it?
Finale 2007c. | | Back to Top | |
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sPretzel
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 309
| Posted 11/19/2009 9:30 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi Jeanne. That was an enlightening post but I don't understand why the clef has to appear in a measure by itself.
If I judge by barlines and measure numbers on my end, I see the clef appear before the barline (technically, in the previous measure it is supposed to apply to), while the key signature appears after the barline inside the correct measure.
I can reproduce what you've done but as you said, that means the clef has to live in its own measure by itself. This also poses problems of spacing between the clef and the music/time signature vs. the spacing that applies to the first clef on the staff. In fact, that is visible on your attachment.
I don't think I'm asking something unusual from Finale here (clef change within the piece and displaying it), so I am surprised as to why there is no apparent standard feature to support it (as opposed to a workaround). | | Back to Top | |
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Flint
silly bear
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151
| Posted 11/20/2009 2:05 PM (GMT -6) | | | Hrm, I could've sworn that was the case (if I'm wrong, so be it, and thanks for the correction).
Either way, I'd still like a further explanation of exactly what the OP is trying to do.
woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2009b using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows Vista 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM, Soundblaster Audigy II zs
If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read | | Back to Top | |
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Michel R. E.
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
| Posted 11/20/2009 2:24 PM (GMT -6) | | Motet said...
There's not such an attribute for clefs, only key and time signatures.
1. Select Clef Tool
2. Right click in measure
3. Select clef
4. Select checkbox "show clef always"
5. If needed, select checkbox "place clef after barline"
I believe this is what Flint was referring to. (it isn't in the measure tool, but the clef tool)
Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2010
currently installed: 2006c, 2007c, 2008a, 2009, 2010
Full GPO (Kontakt), GPO 4 (Aria), Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Stradivari Violin, Gofriller Cello, Garritan Concert and Marching Band
Win XP
Michel R. Edward
Composer, teacher, music administrator
Post Edited (QcCowboy) : 11/20/2009 1:28:32 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | |
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Flint
silly bear
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151
| Posted 11/20/2009 4:17 PM (GMT -6) | | AHA, now I see the problem... it's not the OP I was confused about, it was the thread necromancer, sPretzel.
woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2009b using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows Vista 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM, Soundblaster Audigy II zs
If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read | | Back to Top | |
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Michel R. E.
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
| Posted 11/20/2009 4:41 PM (GMT -6) | | Motet said...
He said Measure tool.
I know, that's why I mention it in my last sentence 
Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2010
currently installed: 2006c, 2007c, 2008a, 2009, 2010
Full GPO (Kontakt), GPO 4 (Aria), Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Stradivari Violin, Gofriller Cello, Garritan Concert and Marching Band
Win XP
Michel R. Edward
Composer, teacher, music administrator
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Michel R. E.
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
| Posted 11/20/2009 5:13 PM (GMT -6) | | sPretzel said...
I don't think I'm asking something unusual from Finale here (clef change within the piece and displaying it), so I am surprised as to why there is no apparent standard feature to support it (as opposed to a workaround).
Finale handles clef changes within a piece exactly per the rules of notation.
Finale also handles the changes of key signature per the rules of standard notation.
The issue here, I think - if I am understanding what you are asking for - is that you are asking Finale to deal with a key change AND a change of clef within a piece in a non-standard manner.
A clef change occurs when the clef... well, "changes".
When a clef changes to a different clef, it appears BEFORE a barline, when in the middle of a staff system.
As has been requested, is there any way of you including an image of what you really need and the purpose behind it?
I think there are a lot of people confused by what exactly you are asking Finale to do.
Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2010
currently installed: 2006c, 2007c, 2008a, 2009, 2010
Full GPO (Kontakt), GPO 4 (Aria), Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Stradivari Violin, Gofriller Cello, Garritan Concert and Marching Band
Win XP
Michel R. Edward
Composer, teacher, music administrator
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sPretzel
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 309
| Posted 11/20/2009 10:32 PM (GMT -6) | | Let me clarify. Jeanne R pretty much understood the problem at hand here. What I want to achieve is what Jeanne R is showing in the image she posted on 11/17/2009 5:29 PM, on the second staff (clef is between barline and new key signature). What I originally got to when I posted was the image I attached on 11/17/2009 12:59 PM (GMT -6) - my clef appears before the barline.
My post was somewhat related to the original poster's question, but slightly more specific.
That being said, if the rules of notation are, as QcCowboy said, that a clef change appears before a barline, I was not aware of that. In my case here, I want to force the display of the clef in any given measure (it so happens that there is no clef change, since it's all treble clef).
There have been a few suggestions made here by Jeanne R, as well as Peter Thomsen (email) which have given me some pointers to work with. Thank you! | | Back to Top | |
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Michel R. E.
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
| Posted 11/20/2009 11:17 PM (GMT -6) | | I'm just trying to understand the context of what you wish to achieve.
You're talking about a case with no clef, then forcing the same clef to re-appear.
Are you writing exercises? or examples for a book?
What I'm suspecting is that you MIGHT be causing yourself more trouble than you really need.
There is, as Jeanne demonstrated, a work-around for the end result you want.
However, I was mostly responding to your comment that "finale should be able to do this".
Since it's NOT a standard manner of notating, there's no "should be able to" involved without a bit of work-around.
Finale well let you notate pretty much anything, even things that defy the rules of engraving.
Things that are non-standard require a bit more work to achieve due to their, to put it bluntly, non-standard nature.
There is no reason for Finale to automatically do something that defies convention.
I'm not trying to come down on you like a ton of manuscript paper.
I'm just trying to be fair about what Finale should and should not be able to achieve with what sort of simplicity.
Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2010
currently installed: 2006c, 2007c, 2008a, 2009, 2010
Full GPO (Kontakt), GPO 4 (Aria), Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Stradivari Violin, Gofriller Cello, Garritan Concert and Marching Band
Win XP
Michel R. Edward
Composer, teacher, music administrator
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