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Doc Scantlin
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 21

Posted 2/20/2005 4:38 PM (GMT -6)

I have Finale 2005
In a score, when I drag a measure with notes, smart shapes and expressions to a new location, everything is fine. However, when I either copy or cut the same measure and replace entries (paste) to a new location I now have the expressions from every measure above and below the cut (copied) measure in the "new" replaced measure location and every measure above and below the new measure location also has these dozens of expressions. What a mess! I have not found a reference to this in the forum search. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,

Doc Scantlin

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/20/2005 5:19 PM (GMT -6)

If the expression is assigned to all staves in the score, that choice is copied to the new location. Just shift-double click on the expression handle for the measure you copied (in the destination location) and change it for this staff only and the others will disappear.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP

Doc Scantlin
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 21

Posted 2/20/2005 5:35 PM (GMT -6)

The expression was assigned to just the one measure. I believe you are referring to the "measure expression assignment" window and when I choose one measure the expression does not go away ( on the "new" measure). I still have these drum expressions in all the horn parts and further when I cut a measure it leaves behind the expressions (and adds more in the new location).
Regards,
Doc Scantlin

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/21/2005 12:54 AM (GMT -6)

If you wouldn't mind posting a sample file here, a look at it might provide insights.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP

BKMorgan
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 17

Posted 2/21/2005 7:16 PM (GMT -6)

I have experienced the same thing, and let them know about it. It is not just expressions that are set for all staves. It is the ones in "this staff only" as well. In particular, it happens most when dealing with a file that was created with an earlier version of Finale, and then you cut and paste to move or rearrange things. I often get horn scores from composers and arrangers and then must create percussion parts to go along with it. The cut and paste feature is a huge help when I am working this way.

I addressed the problem with Tom Johnson of MakeMusic, and he told me that I should never cut and paste, instead cut and insert. When I do this, the expressions are not copied. It isn't the best solution, because it is a pain to insert then have to go back and drag to where you really want it, then delete the measures that were added. I explained this to him, but I got the feeling that it wasn't something that people have complained about. I think cut and paste should be fixed so that this problem doesn't exist.

Finale Version 2005a.r2

Smartmusic 8.4

Windows XP Pro Ver. 2002 SP1

1.6 G Intel Pentium M

512 MB Ram

Dick Brodfuehrer
Hack Arranger and C.O.G. (Chief Old Geezer)

Date Joined Jul 2000
Total Posts : 4687

Posted 2/22/2005 3:55 AM (GMT -6)

You avoid all of these problems if you always use the Ctrl/Shift-Click method when copying within the same score.

The only time I ever use the Edit-Copy commands is when copying between files. In those cases Insert is generally more reliable than Paste, but both have some limitations.

(Currently using: Finale 2003a, 2005, Windows XP-Home, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it, Schlitz when I can't.)

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!

and

Isn't it a shame that so many people die with their music still in them.

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/22/2005 11:25 AM (GMT -6)

Finale behaves as it should. I hope someone will post one of these defective scores for our observation. I can't seem to duplicate any of the described behaviors.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP

Dick Brodfuehrer
Hack Arranger and C.O.G. (Chief Old Geezer)

Date Joined Jul 2000
Total Posts : 4687

Posted 2/22/2005 12:19 PM (GMT -6)

You should be able to duplicate the behavior, Zuill. All expressions are treated as if they are assigned to all staves when using the Edit copy commands, regardless of how they are assigned in the copy-from location. At least that has been my experience when copying from one file to another. I'm certain it is true of measure attached expressions, but not certain about note attached expressions, because I rarely use them.

(Currently using: Finale 2003a, 2005, Windows XP-Home, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it, Schlitz when I can't.)

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!

and

Isn't it a shame that so many people die with their music still in them.

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/22/2005 12:48 PM (GMT -6)

Well, I use 2005b and have tried all the copy/paste methods available, and expressions assigned to one staff only stay that way, even between documents. I usually ask, "What am I doing wrong?" But now I am saying, "What am I doing right?"

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP

Post Edited (Zuill) : 2/22/2005 7:31:59 PM GMT

Tyler
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2001
Total Posts : 3586

Posted 2/22/2005 1:19 PM (GMT -6)

Dick, have you tried that in Finale 2005? This was improved in 2005, and the behavior is different from 2003 and 2004. I get the same results as Zuill.

Windows XP, all updates

Doc Scantlin
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 21

Posted 2/22/2005 2:04 PM (GMT -6)

Here is my score (if I did the attachment correctly). In my computor when I drag a measure (not practical from score to parts or form different areas of a score) all is well. However, when I "copy and past" I get the effect under discussion. Any help would be appreciated. Finale 2005.r2.

Regards,

Doc Scantlin

File Attachment :
test .MUS 264KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 431 time(s).

Dick Brodfuehrer
Hack Arranger and C.O.G. (Chief Old Geezer)

Date Joined Jul 2000
Total Posts : 4687

Posted 2/22/2005 2:14 PM (GMT -6)

Tyler said...
Dick, have you tried that in Finale 2005? This was improved in 2005, and the behavior is different from 2003 and 2004. I get the same results as Zuill.

I haven't tried it in 2005. That's great if it has been fixed.

(Currently using: Finale 2003a, 2005, Windows XP-Home, TGTools 2.25, and The Glenlivet when I can afford it, Schlitz when I can't.)

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!

and

Isn't it a shame that so many people die with their music still in them.

Doc Scantlin
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 21

Posted 2/22/2005 2:28 PM (GMT -6)

This is a problem in my 2005 only. Same file works fine in 2004. I hope this helps. Also when using "copy and paste" would this be a glitch involving the OS?

Regards,

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/22/2005 2:38 PM (GMT -6)

This file was created in Finale 97. Is it possible to post the original file? This one has been resaved in 2005. It would be a help if I could open it in 2005 without having first been saved in 2005.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP

Doc Scantlin
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 21

Posted 2/22/2005 4:26 PM (GMT -6)

Here is a 2003 (I believe) file that does the expression nonsense when opened in my 2005.

Regards,

Doc

File Attachment :
AND ALL THAT JAZZ Tootsie's key with cuts).MUS 203KB (application/octet-stream)

This file has been downloaded 406 time(s).

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/22/2005 5:05 PM (GMT -6)

I can't explain how things got so messed up on the first file, but I see no unusual behavior in the 2nd one. It copies as it should. Do you have 2005b? If there were any issues with expressions 2005 (I don't recall) they are definitely not in 2005b. By the way, the All That Jazz file is in 2004a, not 2003. It also was created in 97. I would still like to see the original 97 file if it still exists.

Zuill

P.S.: By the way, I looked back at the Blues in the Night file. I deleted all but the first two measures of expressions and ran a test. The expressions assigned to all staves copied to all staves. The ones assigned to a single staff copied to a single staff. This is how it should work. Whatever happened to the file has nothing to do with 2005, as far as I can see. Considereign it started out in version 97, who knows when all those expressions popped up.

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP

Post Edited (Zuill) : 2/22/2005 10:11:16 PM GMT

Doc Scantlin
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 21

Posted 2/22/2005 5:39 PM (GMT -6)

I have version 2005.r2. I downloaded the file I posted (All That Jazz) and opened in my 2005 Finale and it did the dreaded expression explosion. Now this is exactly the same file you downloaded and open in your 2005 Finale and found no problem. What am I missing?
Kind regards,
Doc Scantlin

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 2/22/2005 5:51 PM (GMT -6)

Well, to be on an even playing field, consider upgrading to 2005b. The file is on MakeMusic's website. I can't say why things are happening there and not here. Also, a contact with tech support might be in order. Apparently you did not create the original file, so you don't know any more than what you see. Maybe they can shed some light, but chances are they will have the same experience as me.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP

Doc Scantlin
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 21

Posted 2/22/2005 6:22 PM (GMT -6)

Dear Zuill,
The newest 2005 upgrade (I thought I had the newest) did the trick. Thanks so much for your help.
Sincerely,
Doc Scantlin

Fritz Meissner
Choir Addict

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 3238

Posted 4/22/2005 4:10 PM (GMT -6)

I've just run across this same problem in PrintMusic 2004 copying music from one file to another. This is a piece which I did a while ago and now want to copy across to a new template which someone with Finale set up for me with different HP settings. In the original document I did select all and copy, then went to the window with the new template and inserted it. Everything came across, but with multiple copies of the expressions on all staves.
When I open the file in a demo copy of Finale, I can see that the expressions are set to "show in all staves", but in PM I have no way to alter that setting. Has anyone come up with a workaround, before I start doing this the hard way?

Fritz

PrintMusic 2004, Windows XP Pro, Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZX, P4 2.6 GHz + 1 GB

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