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| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Change in Forum Location | Forum Quick Jump
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Michael Johnson
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 1317
| Posted 12/6/2016 7:19 PM (GMT -6) |   | Greetings all:
Thank you for sharing your concerns with us. I wanted to chime in with my thoughts. A group of us at MakeMusic thought long and hard about the best way to serve our users. I appreciate your concerns that the ZenDesk Community is not this forum. As Adam noted, we will make as many changes to Community as quickly as possible and we will advocate to Zendesk to enhance their tool set. I also want to affirm that we are only locking this forum, we are not removing accessibility. The rich set of answers and discussion will remain as a resource.
I also appreciate many of you, myself included, coming to these forums for a sense of community about all things Finale. While only time will tell, I can assure you we are committed to fostering that same sense of community in the "Community" portal. I realize these are empty words but I sincerely look forward to you joining me in our new Help Center Community.
Change and Adapt. This has become a motto of our company as we became part of Peaksware. When I started at MakeMusic in 1996, the only forums available were from AOL and Compuserve. Shortly thereafter it was determined that we would no longer support those services. I recall a rather large outcry, similar to this, of the AOL and Compuserve communities at the time. But change and adapt we did. Of course, there was no Facebook, or Yahoo, or Google, or Twitter, or ZenDesk and our documentation was 3 purple books back then. So, we provided as best we could a neutral forum, this forum. Times have changed and as difficult as it is for all of us, we need to change and adapt.
I agree that the Finale community is a great asset and, in this day and age when you have so many choices to pick your notation toolset, the fact that you continue to use Finale is both humbling and inspiring. We all want Finale to be better and change quicker and have every feature all of you have dreamed up. Maybe someday it will, in the meantime, we will keep making small changes, releasing updates with bug fixes, and implementing new features: allowing Finale to become better, faster, and easier to use. It is absolutely your free market right to choose whether to participate. Thank you for doing so.
Thank you for your time, your energy, your feedback (yes! we listen), your ideas, and most of all your musicianship. For in the end, we all want to Make Music. "Here's hoping that Finale enhances your musical productivity and creativity in ways you've never imagined possible."
Sincerely,
Michael Johnson
Vice President, Professional Notation
Michael Johnson
MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM | | Back to Top | |
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Motet
Isorhythmic
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
| Posted 12/6/2016 7:24 PM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Writer of Music
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 848
| Posted 12/7/2016 11:06 AM (GMT -6) | | Michael Johnson said...
A group of us at MakeMusic thought long and hard about the best way to serve our users.
Either the group was too small, or you didn't think long and hard enough. Because closing this forum couldn't be farthest from 'serving' your customers.
Keeping this forum open but deactivated is of very little use, because it is an ordeal to search this forum as it is and therefor hardly a 'resource' of answers of any value whatsoever.
The point is not the loss of a 'sense of community', but of a resource of knowledge and experience that MakeMusic never has and never will be able to provide. As helpful and probably knowledgeable your help centre may be, they cannot and never will match the knowledge, experience, success in help and helpfulness of a number of long time users, copyists, musicologists, musicians, composers as is gathered here.
'Change and adapt' may well be your company motto, but why do you enforce that on your customer — you'll remember: the one who buys your stuff and thus puts bread on your table. Shouldn't you adapt and change when your customer demands that from you? But no, instead you force the customer to adapt and change.
And last but by no means least: please don't say that you listen when you should say that you hear. To listen suggests that you do something with what you hear. Do you? No, your path was set and regardless of what you hear, your path remains unchanged.
In short, nice speech, mr. Johnson, but your quasi empathic words did not earn you a cigar.
Finale 25.
Mac OS X 10.11.6. | | Back to Top | |
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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist
Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883
| Posted 12/7/2016 1:18 PM (GMT -6) | | Well I guess most here are at the point where we will leave these forums behind, MM's attempt at further control is a failure but they are to blind to see. Maybe somewhat related to the current election in the US..... those insulated from what the common electorate (user base) needed or even wanted. Insulated with their corporate speak and hive mind, and failing to even ask themselves whether at this time with features that are needed but lacking with Zendesk that they should put off the change until those issues are rectified.
Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, Version 25.1; TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.5.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, Notion 5 (Notion 5 not really any better than 4, [Notion 6 (bought but not installed)]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), 2@ Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil
BMus, MM (Musicology) | | Back to Top | |
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Michel R. E.
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
| Posted 12/7/2016 7:24 PM (GMT -6) | | Writer of Music said...Michael Johnson said...
A group of us at MakeMusic thought long and hard about the best way to serve our users. Either the group was too small, or you didn't think long and hard enough. Because closing this forum couldn't be farthest from 'serving' your customers. <snip> 'Change and adapt' may well be your company motto, but why do you enforce that on your customer — you'll remember: the one who buys your stuff and thus puts bread on your table. Shouldn't you adapt and change when your customer demands that from you? But no, instead you force the customer to adapt and change.
The forum is a MAJOR selling point, because gathered in a single place are people of vast experience as engravers, teachers, composers, and musicians.
If MM forces all of these people to "change and adapt" I can easily see many of them changing and adapting to some other software which appears to offer considerably more RESPECT for its clientele and a vested interest in amassing the best and brightest around its product.
Upgrade the forum, sure. it's way past due.
But the "new forum" MM is offering us is pure shi*. it has 0 functionality, and is missing just about every attribute that makes this forum so valuable.
A MM employee even had the nerve to respond here saying that the new forum could do all the same things... more or less... except for a few exceptions... which includes pretty much everything that the user base requires of a Finale forum. In other words, with a few weasel words a MM employee admitted that the new forum is pointless and useless.
As was wisely said: MakeMusic, you may be "hearing", but you are NOT "listening".
Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.
"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument." | | Back to Top | |
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Zuill
"The Troll"
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
| Posted 12/7/2016 11:26 PM (GMT -6) | | | The scan app reversal was that they said they would have it, then they abruptly removed it. That is a reversal.
And, we might as well fold. It appears that things are set in stone. Interesting business paradigm, but the one chosen, nonetheless.
Zuill
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, 25.1
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!" | | Back to Top | |
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N. Grossingink
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 3991
| Posted 12/8/2016 7:10 PM (GMT -6) | | There is another thing about the new Community Forum that's a bit disconcerting.
Whenever a question is answered, the forum moderator apparently can tag the topic "ANSWERED", which locks the topic preventing further discussion. Not really helpful if you want to mention an alternate technique, word of caution, use of plugin, etc., etc.
N.
OSX El Capitan 10.11.6
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work
Finale 2014.5, not used by my clients
(Finale v25 - not interested yet)
TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale
"At last, fortissimo!"
–Gustav Mahler, on visiting Niagara Falls | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 12/10/2016 10:35 AM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Michel R. E.
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
| Posted 12/10/2016 10:37 AM (GMT -6) | | translation
Michael Johnson said...
Hi All:
Thank-you for wasting your time telling us about your needs. We want to take advantage of the Finale community, but on OUR terms, so we're still going to push you to go to the new pointless forum, because we have decided what is best for you. Actually, we've decided what is best for us by ignoring what is actually best for you.
Additionally, no matter the mounds of evidence to the contrary, we believe something blindly enough to damage this community to satisfy our pig-headed need to "do something new", because our incompetent designers would rather distract you from the numerous as-yet unrepaired bugs in Finale with a pointless and uncalled for forum move.
I'll just continue pretending that your feedback actually means something to us.
Cheers,
Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.
"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument." | | Back to Top | |
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Ron.
Composer
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
| Posted 12/10/2016 10:41 AM (GMT -6) | | They just don't get it. I, and many other experienced users who have been supporting this community for decades, are not going to the new forum. Period. End of story. You've lost, MakeMusic, more than you seem to realize.
Finale 25.2
GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.
Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.
www.composeforums.com | | Back to Top | |
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Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 12/10/2016 11:32 AM (GMT -6) | | | |
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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist
Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883
| Posted 12/10/2016 11:35 AM (GMT -6) | | Ron. said...
They just don't get it..................
They just don't care.
If they really heard what we said they would repeat each and every item and then tell us why with that understanding that this needs to be completed at this point without Zendesk having a fuller feature set to facilitate interactions.
Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, Version 25.2; TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.5.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, Notion 5 (Notion 5 not really any better than 4, [Notion 6 (bought but not installed)]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), 2@ Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil
BMus, MM (Musicology) | | Back to Top | |
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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist
Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 883
| Posted 12/10/2016 4:55 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks Peter and Mike.....joined in 2014 but never used as this current forum was more useful to my purposes. But by the end of December when MM finally locks this site I'll be on http://www.finaleforum.com/index.php?sid=a67294fb7e7dcca8bd3fd8b5238927c8
Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, Version 25.2; TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.5.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, Notion 5 (Notion 5 not really any better than 4, [Notion 6 (bought but not installed)]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), 2@ Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil
BMus, MM (Musicology) | | Back to Top | |
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