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Jeremy Levy
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Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 811
| Posted 4/22/2007 6:22 PM (GMT -6) |   | Dave,
The wage scale charts are a little confusing at first. The DUP rates are when you make multiple copies of a part (Vln 1, Vla, etc...) for more than one stand. Generally speaking, you would use the REG rates. There are also extra's you can charge for, like adding chord symbols, etc. You also charge more for a grand staff than a single staff. And if there are divisi parts on a single staff, you also charge extra.
If you don't want to mess with all the calculating, just go by an hourly rate. This is usually around $20-40 an hour depending on what you think you're worth. Seems like $30-35 is pretty common out here.
And yes, the rates are for creating parts or scores or whatever. Doesn't matter where they come from. Just find the appropriate scale.
Hope this helps. If yuo have more questions, private message me.
Best,
Jeremy
Jeremy Levy
Trombonist, Composer/Arranger, Copyist
Burbank, CA 91505
www.jlevymusic.com
Mac Pro - Quad Core 2.66 GHz
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Finale 2007c
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BopEuph
Occasional Lurker, Occasional Poster
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 1163
| Posted 4/22/2007 7:02 PM (GMT -6) | | I charge by the frame. A frame is a measure with anything but a whole rest each part. For instance, if it's a piece for solo instrument and piano, and the instrument rest in a measure, that measure has two frames. I just pushed my price up to 50 cents a frame from 35 because that was not much money. I may push it up again if it still shows not enough.
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jcraig1
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Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 842
| Posted 4/22/2007 10:03 PM (GMT -6) | | Dave-
A regular single stave part would be like a Trumpet part. May NOT be xeroxed or copied at all, not even as a backup. If they plan to copy it in any way, then the rate is automatically the repro rate.
A duplicate (usually called Repro) part would refer to a part that would ordinarily be used as a master copy, e.g., Violin or other Strings, Percussion. Anything that will be copied or xeroxed is a repro part, whether it be the rehearsal piano or anyhing else. You charge the DUP/REPRO rate for the first (master) part you copy, then a small page rate (50 cents or $1 pp for each repro (or xeroxed) page you furnish to the client (say the rest of the Violin stands).
In addition to the page rates (the standard), you are entitled to charge for time proofing, collating and taping parts, etc. Also for your materials.
The standard is a 10 stave page (8 on first page), 4 bars to a line if possible. Naturaly looks, layout and bringing your own intelligence to the work affects this rule, but the rates are based on it.
Charging by the frame is not used by most professional copyists that I know.
BTW - the rates you have are the rates for L.A.
Hope this helps.
Joel Craig
Craig Music Services
New York City/Florida
FIN 2007c,
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pmaestro
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Date Joined Jan 1999
Total Posts : 60
| Posted 4/26/2007 10:03 AM (GMT -6) | | This is actually a very interesting discussion. With the advent (and now ubiquity) of music publishing software, the long established "rates"- based on hand copying of parts/ scores etc..- really don't accurately reflect the current work-flow. For example, the standard process now for copying usually involves a composer/ arranger delivering a score (for most of us here, a Finale score), from which we "extract" the parts, not by painstakingly hand-copying them, but by using one of the Finale part extraction processes. (I use special part extraction, but that is, and has been, another discussion in this forum!). This process can be very efficient, as we all know, particularly if the composer/ arranger has done a well-crafted score. Does it make sense to charge an antiquated page rate based on hand copying those parts? I don't think so. In fact, as an arranger/ orchestrator, I generally don't hire someone to generate parts. I can do it (as most of us can) very quickly myself. ( I do add a small amount to my arranging/ orchestrating quote to cover the process of extracting the parts; if you're good at Finale, this actually enhances the fee structure for the arranger, but conceivably takes work away from the copyist. The work landscape for copyists in general has changed because of this..)
So what's the answer? For me, the only sensible one is charging by the hour. The hourly rates mentioned in this thread seem sensible, but they need to be modified based on the amount of editing necessary to produce good parts.
As to arranging/ orchestrating rates, that's another whole complicated issue wich the AFM scales don't really adequately address.
Just my thoughts...
Peter Mansfield
Boston
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jcraig1
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 842
| Posted 4/27/2007 10:16 AM (GMT -6) | | pmaestro said...
Does it make sense to charge an antiquated page rate based on hand copying those parts? I don't think so.
So what's the answer? For me, the only sensible one is charging by the hour. The hourly rates mentioned in this thread seem sensible, but they need to be modified based on the amount of editing necessary to produce good parts.
As to arranging/ orchestrating rates, that's another whole complicated issue wich the AFM scales don't really adequately address.
Just my thoughts...
Peter Mansfield
Boston
www.mansfieldmusic.net
As Peter so aptly pointed out, our work landscape has changed. However, with the hourly rates those who are proficient in the program are in effect penalized for being good at it!
The faster you work the less money you make! Not a great scenario.
The hourly rates were used for a while in the Bway contracts in NY at the express request of the producers but did not work out well. Besides there being no real way to check on the actual hours spent, they kept asking for page counts! I believe now the choice was/is that they specify before the job begins what rates they wish to use and must stick with them.
As we all know there are things that are a snap on the computer (which took forever by hand) and, conversely, things that are instinctive and instant when working by hand that are laborious and time consuming in Finale. The page rates generally reflect that. If you're really good you turn out more pages and get paid more. If slow you get paid less. As it should be.
Incidentally there are still some copyists working by hand and they have to be considered in the setting of scales - I have occasionally been requested to do something with a pen. After years of Finale it's a horror!
Joel Craig
Craig Music Services
New York City/Florida
FIN 2007c,
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PowerMac G4 dual 867, 768 memory,
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Philip.
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Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 4/27/2007 12:18 PM (GMT -6) | | I appreciate Joel's insightful comments. The other side of the coin is if you charge by the page, the incentive is to just "get the job done" and churn out the pages as fast as possible.
There's a difference between a rush to get music on the stand for a gig or a session, which may not ever be played again, and engraving published music, which takes more time. In the latter case, if charging by the page, the engraver suffers if the music is detailed & complex. If you charge hourly, you get compensated more fairly.
So -- not one size fits all, the best option is to find a fair price depending on the type of job. Especially when considering converting old Finale files, MIDI, Sibelius etc. | | Back to Top | |
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jcraig1
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 842
| Posted 4/27/2007 9:38 PM (GMT -6) | | Rick is correct with his point re:symphonic work. Also generally the 4 measures per line is not adhered to; mostly music is 'stuffed' in there so as to have as few page turns as possible and the higher rates reflect that.
The page rates (at least at Local 802 in NYC) are all primarily designed for the production of music that is to be played in performance and the scales reflect that. They vary mostly according to the relative scales that the band musicians receive and have a number of variables, such as the venue, situation in which the music will be used, etc. In addition, if music that is prepared for live performance is later used for a recording or home video, etc., another payment is required.
I believe most publishing work is done according to pretty rigid guidelines of the publisher and is an entirely different situation.
Joel Craig
Craig Music Services
New York City/Florida
FIN 2007c,
OS 10.4.9
PowerMac G4 dual 867, 768 memory,
14" iBook G4 for travel,
Apple 23" Cinema HD Display,
Yamaha PSR-530, Edirol UM-2,
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jcraig1
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 842
| Posted 4/27/2007 9:47 PM (GMT -6) | | Philip. said...Jetcopy said...
That's not true. That's just as inaccurate as saying you do an hourly wage job "as slow as possible" to drag it out. Sorry, maybe you misunderstood, it is not the same as purposefully dragging out an hourly job, which benefits only the copyist in an unethical way, unless the copyist legitimately was taking more time to achieve the desired standard of quality. As I said, sometimes "just getting the job done" is what the client wants, i.e., speed is prized over quality depending on the gig, esp. if time is a factor, and that the client & copyist should agree what's expected quality-wise and charge appropriately.
Philip-
Sometimes speed is worth a premium charge over and above the regular rates. While you refer to "speed over quality" I think the best of us include top quality along with the speed. If I get the late night call for a recording session the next morning it's because, in addition to knowing that the job will actually be completed on time, the client knows it will be mistake free and laid out so that the musicians will be able to be helped by the copying work not hindered by it and the music will be rehearsed and recorded in an optimum period of (expensive) studio time. And I charge a premium for it.
I can not tell you how many times I have seen the musicians with their instruments in their laps, just trying to figure out what's going on in the chart!
Speed AND quality is the standard.
Joel Craig
Craig Music Services
New York City/Florida
FIN 2007c,
OS 10.4.9
PowerMac G4 dual 867, 768 memory,
14" iBook G4 for travel,
Apple 23" Cinema HD Display,
Yamaha PSR-530, Edirol UM-2,
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Philip.
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 4/28/2007 9:15 AM (GMT -6) | | Certainly Joel, no question speed and quality is the standard, i don't mean to imply otherwise or suggest anyone should sacrifice it. Just that in certain situations/budgets the goal is to simply be accurate and serviceable, as opposed to winning the coveted Tony award for copying :)
For instance, I recently had a gig for a musical workshop and they were revising the score after every session. We agreed it was not worth it to spend tons of time on page layout/formatting, etc., since it would only get changed the next day. Hope this makes sense and clarifies what I mean.
jcraig1 said...
I believe most publishing work is done according to pretty rigid guidelines of the publisher and is an entirely different situation.
I guess this is what also I meant by "quality" -- the extra time tweaking, refining, correcting, etc. according to a particular style guide. Since the original poster was asking specifically about a new musical, I believe your comments are appropriate, and the talk of engraving work and other areas of music prep is a different discussion.Post Edited (Philip.) : 4/28/2007 9:21:07 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
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rumsong
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 126
| Posted 4/28/2007 4:57 PM (GMT -6) | | Greetings
jcraig1 said...
I believe most publishing work is done according to pretty rigid guidelines of the publisher and is an entirely different situation.
If this is so, what are some of the guidelines there?
All best wishes,
Gordon Rumson | | Back to Top | |
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jcraig1
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 842
| Posted 4/29/2007 9:41 AM (GMT -6) | | RickV said...
Going back to the original post by Dave perhaps I can clarify the dupe parts price. Imagine if you had no copying machine and you had to make parts for twenty violins, 10 stands. You would charge for 10 parts. 10 parts at $5.95 a page is $59.50. So $11.90 is not exorbitant for the same work. One other item I did not see mentioned in any of the posts, divisi parts. More than one note on a staff. There is also an extra charge for doing this work. All in all the page rates are fine for the bulk of copying work. Rick
Good point.
In Dave's original post he attached a chart of the LA rates which showed prices for divisi/chorded parts. In addition there are add-ons for numbering bars, adding chord symbols (Guitar, Bass, etc), also provided for in those rates.
BTW, Dave, Drum parts count as divisi/chorded.
Joel Craig
Craig Music Services
New York City/Florida
FIN 2007c,
OS 10.4.9
PowerMac G4 dual 867, 768 memory,
14" iBook G4 for travel,
Apple 23" Cinema HD Display,
Yamaha PSR-530, Edirol UM-2,
hp laserjet 2200d, Kensington Turbo Mouse | | Back to Top | |
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