|
|
| MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > cut and paste music with lyrics without changing the lyrics window | Forum Quick Jump
|
| 
Erik Van Geit
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 172
| Posted 3/26/2011 2:00 AM (GMT -6) |   | | Hi,
Say you have some measures with lyrics in Staff1 which need to be put in another Staff2 .
How to do this without messing up the lyrics?
Symptoms which you can encounter in the lyrics window:
- repeated lyrics at the end of the verse (or chorus or section) when copying music
- missing lyrics when you delete the notes which they are attached to: EDIT: don't know if this is true: couldn't replicate this behaviour a day later
Currently I copy the music without lyrics from Staff1 to Staff2, then clone the lyrics from Staff1 to Staff2, then delete the notes in Staff1. This way the lyrics window stays clean.
kind regards,
Erik
Finale 2011 on Windows
| | Back to Top | |
|
Vaughan
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 4984
| Posted 3/27/2011 4:51 PM (GMT -6) | | I'm usually not bothered too much by the lyrics window behavior, certainly since the advent of 2011. I don't mind lyrics being duplicated either, especially since it means they can be individually edited. I wouldn't refer to duplicates as 'messing up the lyrics'. I tend to use different verses/choruses, etc. if I need to keep things tidy. You describe a rather convoluted process to copy music with lyrics from one staff to another. BTW, lyrics don't get deleted if you delete the notes to which they are attached. And if you have duplicate lyrics as a result of moving music to another staff, you can get rid of the original lyrics (if you don't need them anymore and you want to eliminate lyrics window clutter) by deselecting 'Subsequent Lyrics in Score Shift to the Left when Deleting a Syllable in the Lyrics Window' under Lyrics Window Options. The lyrics in your copied staff will stay put. So in answer to your questions: no, I don't have problems with this. Does this provide the solutions you were looking for?
Vaughan
Finale 3.2 - 2011, Sibelius 4 - 6
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 5 plugin
MacOS 10.6.5
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (late 2008) 4GB
Kontakt 2, 3.5, 4.0
Amsterdam | | Back to Top | |
|
Erik Van Geit
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 172
| Posted 3/28/2011 12:44 PM (GMT -6) | | | Vaughan and Wiggy,
Thank you for responding.
(couldn't replicate the problem: deleting notes ==> delete lyrics; if I ever can, will post again)
I do care about the lyrics window, because we need exactly the same text in script and score for our musical. When exporting lyrics, they must be correct.
Regarding the important purpose of correct lyrics, the additional time invested to get what I want is peanuts, compared to the entire work to be done.
best regards,
Erik
EDIT: brings me suddendly to an idea for a plugin: "get lyrics straight from score"
Finale 2011 on Windows
| | Back to Top | |
|
Jeanne R
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 1251
| Posted 3/28/2011 9:29 PM (GMT -6) | | Zuill said...
When I copy music with lyrics from one staff to another, the lyric edit window doesn't add anything. Might there be other steps you take that I can duplicate to get those results?
It doesn't add. But if you delete/replace notes and lyrics in various ways, it retains all the old info, making hash. The important principal is that the old and new syllables know which beat they were/are associated with. This is difficult to explain and I couldn't swear that I've tested it exhaustively. Focus on two beats in the middle of a passage of a few measures. I'll refer to lyrics in the manuscript vs. lyrics in storage (viewable in the Edit Lyrics window):
- Type into score for a few measures. Storage looks fine.
- Delete the notes on our two beats in the middle: Lyrics disappear from manuscript but remain in storage.
- Enter new notes to replace them: Altho the old lyrics are still in storage and definitely know which beats they belong to, they don't appear in the manuscript. It doesn't matter if you are entering notes with the same rhythm.
- Type new lyrics under the new notes using type into score: In storage, you will now have the new lyrics followed by the old lyrics embedded in all of the lyrics that have not changed. That is, all of the lyrics correspond to beats with some beats having two sets of lyrics, old and new. This is why if you change measures all over the place among multiple staves, you can end up staring at something unintelligible in storage.
- Now delete the second set of lyrics so that you have your new notes but no lyrics under those notes in the manuscript.
- Now choose Click Assignment from the menu. If you click on the new notes, they acquire the original lyrics.
But this is relatively clean. I then focused on Staff 1, measure 1, and dragged lyrics from Staff 2, replacing lyrics. Now those beats have two sets of lyrics but now the old lyrics are at the very top of the Edit Lyrics window (corresponding to the first measure of Staff 1) while the new lyrics are at the end of the Edit Lyrics window (after *all* lyrics of Staff 2). Still if you delete the lyrics you just dragged, then Click Assignment will restore what had been on those beats.
If you are talking about a lot of lyrics/measures/staves and a lot of dragging, it will get bad. Let's say you dragged the lyrics "one, two" from Staff 2 to Staff 1, m. 1. If you wanted to format Staff 1, m. 1, you could be forgiven for looking at the top of the Edit Lyrics window. Then you could be forgiven for looking for the first instance. But the first instance is in Staff 2 *from* which you copied. The first instance in the manuscript is, in fact, the second instance (last two words) in the Edit Lyrics window.
If you open an old file to re-use as a template, Edit > Clear *all* items, and think the lyrics are gone? Surprise! the place is haunted. (I know, you're not supposed to do this. But we do.)
I'm forced to conclude that the Edit Lyrics window was not intended as storage for a clean set of lyrics. It was intended as the source for Click Assignment -- tho that doesn't explain why it doesn't simply replace lyrics rather than storing the old set [EDIT: and certainly doesn't explain positioning in the Edit Lyrics window]. Due to technical difficulties, I'm not able to re-test the plug-in that I used a long time ago. But my recollection is that it extracted what is in the manuscript and ignores the detritus in the Edit Lyrics window. Maybe Erik or someone will confirm that.
It's an interesting and powerful idea. For me, it gets in the way (tho it's not a major concern). And a user could be forgiven for thinking s/he ought to be able to access a clean set of lyrics in the Edit Lyrics window. Among other things, this is the only way to add formatting to lyrics. The Edit Lyrics window's purpose and limitations are only implied in the Help file that I can tell. It would not be reasonable to expect any user to grasp this without more help than is available or unreasonable time spent investigating and testing.
Jeanne
Win XP Pro, Finale 2008a, GPO 3Post Edited (Jeanne R) : 3/29/2011 9:18:53 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | |
|
Erik Van Geit
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 172
| Posted 3/29/2011 9:38 AM (GMT -6) | |
Jeanne R said...
I think you missed my earlier, shorter post. There is a plug-in under Lyrics. Check it out.
Thank you for your follow up, Jeanne,
I kinda missed that, because I thought you were talking about "export lyrics"...
Here is your earlier post
Jeanne R said...
Did you look under Plug-ins > Lyrics? You should find an Extract Lyrics plug-in.
It's confusing for me. Under plugins > lyrics I see: "melisma" and "positioning" features. Nothing like "extract".
Finale 2011 on Windows
| | Back to Top | |
|
Mike Rosen
himself
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
| Posted 3/29/2011 9:50 AM (GMT -6) | | Jeanne,
I don't have that in F2010 or 2011, either.
Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com
WebMaster and bass for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
Bass for What's Cookin' www.whatscookinvlq.com
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm
Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010; Finale 2010b, 2011b
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker." | | Back to Top | |
|
Erik Van Geit
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 172
| Posted 4/1/2011 7:12 AM (GMT -6) | |
DCrocker said...For a choral piece, I prefer to put each staff as a separate verse. This eliminates the problem of editing other lyrics in addition to the one you thought you were working on. When I go back to enter correction 6 months later, I don't have to figure out which of the 3000 "al-le-lu-ia"s is the one I'm looking for. Not the way the program was designed, I guess -- but, hey!
Yes, that's about my filosophy too at the moment, though I use "clone lyrics" when the same text is repeated in the same stacks.
The extra work you need to do at first (for instance to set baselines & to paste lyrics), will be payed of later. Exporting works accurately, errors are easy to catch, less unexpected shifts in one word; "control", I feel more control when working.
I'm about at verse 50, a third of the entire musical ...
Finale 2011 on Windows
| | Back to Top | |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Tuesday, December 19, 2023 8:17 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2023 |
|
|