The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=5&m=488762
| Posted By : Mabt - 11/21/2016 3:34 AM | | Since I use libraries that have divided articulations, I am in the need of more channels than those that Finale initially offers. |
| Posted By : Ron. - 11/21/2016 6:15 AM | 128 channels are not enough?
Finale 25.1
GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.
Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.
www.composeforums.com |
| Posted By : nordensten - 11/21/2016 7:11 AM | maybe this can be a solution: TransMidifier
(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> v.25) using 2012c & v.25
Cubase 8.5 Pro & Reaper - Vienna Ensemble Pro - Ircam SPAT - Hauptwerk 4 - (Overture 5) - Dorico
Libraries: VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Xsample, Embertone, Wallander, Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, EWQL +++
Garritan Steinway - Garritan CFX pianos
Multiple Windows computers W7/W8.1/i7/32GB |
| Posted By : Ron. - 11/21/2016 7:22 AM | Or, he could simply load up his 128 channels then use the "change instrument" utility when he runs out and needs to change an articulation.
Finale 25.1
GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.
Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.
www.composeforums.com |
| Posted By : Credo - 11/21/2016 6:24 PM | If 128 channels over 8 instances is not enough....
You might try something like Bidule, or Vienna Ensemble Pro.
While these alternative hosts can't force Finale to give you 'more channels', they can allow you more flexibility on how many plugins you can access at once, and you can build far more complex/flexible VST effect chains. You can build keyswitching routines, reroute and manipulate MIDI or Audio streams, and more. I.E. You could create MIDI note or Continuous Controller key-switches to select many articulations among totally different plugin instances over the same MIDI channel. Add something like rtpMIDI, and Bidule also makes it possible to host instruments on a totally different server/PC. You'll also get the ability to run plugin types that might not be supported by Finale.
I've been using a fully registered version of Bidule (can run as a VSTi) a little over 2 years and it's been a very useful tool for me in a growing number of Notation, Production DAW, and Live performance situations. If you're a power user and own many different plugins and sample libraries, I highly recommend trying Bidule and VEP to see if an alternative plugin host makes your life easier and more productive.Post Edited (Credo) : 11/21/2016 5:36:03 PM (GMT-6) |
| Posted By : Bill Reed - 11/21/2016 6:33 PM | Finale is the only program I know of that limits the number of VST MIDI ports. It has somehow stayed tied to the limitation of physical MIDI ports.
But no, you can't add more channels. What libraries are you wanting to use? Do they have alternate setups for keyswitching? If you need to setup articulations by channel, then you may need to just limit how many you use per instrument in Finale. Say for woodwinds, you might get away with 5 articulations, so 1 MIDI port could accommodate 3 instruments. Etc
Finale 25, Sibelius 8.4, Notion 6, Overture 5.1, Cubase 8.5
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190 |
| Posted By : Derrek - 11/21/2016 6:44 PM | If one wants a DAW, one should buy a DAW rather than expect a notation program to be a full-featured DAW.
Finale 2014.5, Finale 25 - Windows 7 (64-bit)
GPO 5, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum)
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx
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| Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 11/22/2016 5:08 AM | It's not my area, but why do you need to change channels for articulations? Don't you just use a Control Change, or adjust some other aspect of the MIDI data on the same channel?
Finale v.25.1, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6 / 10.12.1)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk |
| Posted By : Bill Reed - 11/22/2016 8:07 AM | Some libraries are setup to be used that way. EastWest Hollywood series for instance. Each articulation is a separate instrument, which you'd load on separate channels of the player.
Finale 25, Sibelius 8.4, Notion 6, Overture 5.1, Cubase 8.5
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190 |
| Posted By : nordensten - 11/22/2016 5:22 PM | the idea with transmidifier is that you can use normal key switching in Finale, and transmidifier will translate/split those into as many zillion banks/channels as needed. Obviously it only works with virtual midi cables and having the VSTs hosted externally in a daw or bidule or similar.
(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> v.25) using 2012c & v.25
Cubase 8.5 Pro & Reaper - Vienna Ensemble Pro - Ircam SPAT - Hauptwerk 4 - (Overture 5) - Dorico
Libraries: VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Xsample, Embertone, Wallander, Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, EWQL +++
Garritan Steinway - Garritan CFX pianos
Multiple Windows computers W7/W8.1/i7/32GB |
| Posted By : Mabt - 11/24/2016 2:28 PM | I've been trying to create a Finale template for a Berlin Strings and Berlin Woodwinds based orchestra, setting the necessary Human Playback options so that all I have to do is to write the music. The problem is that I have just 8GBs of RAM, so I'll have to wait till I get 32GBs to see if this template works.
Anyway, and coming back to the topic, I am pretty interested in Bidule and Transmidifier, because all I want is to create keyswitch multiarticulation instruments from the separated patch from Berlin Strings and Woodwinds, which are fantastic, but dont include keyswitch. So, if you guys could explain what these programs do with more detail, that would be very helpful. |
| Posted By : Credo - 11/24/2016 5:04 PM | Mabt said...
I've been trying to create a Finale template for a Berlin Strings and Berlin Woodwinds based orchestra, setting the necessary Human Playback options so that all I have to do is to write the music. The problem is that I have just 8GBs of RAM, so I'll have to wait till I get 32GBs to see if this template works.
Anyway, and coming back to the topic, I am pretty interested in Bidule and Transmidifier, because all I want is to create keyswitch multiarticulation instruments from the separated patch from Berlin Strings and Woodwinds, which are fantastic, but dont include keyswitch. So, if you guys could explain what these programs do with more detail, that would be very helpful.
You can get a demo of Bidule to get a general idea of how to create MIDI 'Bidules'. It's a very small download, and no hardware dongles are required. Your options are nearly unlimited in how you can reroute and manipulate the MIDI stream.
Note that the Stand Alone Demo version of Bidule won't run as a plugin inside Finale, but you should at least be able to try it out a bit in stand alone mode and see if you like the program. The fully registered version of Bidule can be run as a plugin inside the native Finale host, and it really opens massive new avenues for redirecting and manipulating real time MIDI data. Having said that, there might still be times when you might prefer running Bidule as a stand alone host, as you can get more control over what CPU cores plugins will use (some plugins have core management support built in, while others leave it up to the host, etc).
To get this Demo version working with Finale on the same PC you'll need to install some virtual MIDI loop-back ports. I personally recommend loopMIDI since it's free and allows setting up as many ports as you like, with whatever names you like. Optionally, if you have a second PC laying around that you'd like to host sounds from you could create MIDI connections over your LAN or WAN using rtpMIDI. Once you've created virtual MIDI ports so Finale can communicate with Bidule, you'll put Finale in 'MIDI' mode and direct it to the relevant virtual MIDI ports in Playback settings.
Note, in attempting to run the stand alone Bidule Demo; that, Finale and Bidule are both going to want access to a sound card by default. If you have more than one interface in your PC that makes things easier (I.E. A built in audio interface on the motherboard plus a nice USB/FireWire or other professional quality ASIO device). If you have more than one sound interface, then simply give Bidule control of your best one, and let Finale use the other. If you only have one audio interface in your PC, try disabling Audio in Finale, or using Windows Direct Sound drivers from Finale. You might have to try some different combinations of drivers in Both Finale and Bidule if you only have a single audio interface to get things working.
Again, the fully registered version of Bidule doesn't require jumping through hoops with virtual MIDI ports, or direct access to audio driver(s). You'd just load as many Bidule instances as you like in Finale's VST Instrument and VST Effect slots. Registration also gets you access to discrete processing versions of Bidule in case you need those.
Bidule also supports Rewire, but at this time Finale doesn't support the MIDI output part of Rewire (unless you use something like Transmidifier or a Bidule instance to reroute the MIDI through a VSTi slot).
There is a bit of a learning curve to creating Bidules IF you're not already pretty familiar with how MIDI works in general. If you've got a pretty good grasp on the general MIDI protocol basics, it's pretty intuitive, and people at the Plogue forums are super helpful in providing or helping sort any Bidules you can't get working as you'd like. Key-switching, CC, port, and channel bouncing/splitting Bidules are already included in the setup, and you also get plenty of low level tools for creating your own highly customized Bidules.
I'm not familiar with Transmidifier and VEP, but they might also have Demos.......Post Edited (Credo) : 11/24/2016 4:24:15 PM (GMT-6) |
| Posted By : Credo - 11/24/2016 5:31 PM | | Oops, I just realized that Plogue doesn't have a Demo for Bidule posted at the moment. You might try messaging them through the website to see about getting a Demo (or find out when they plan to post one again). |
| Posted By : Bill Reed - 11/24/2016 7:39 PM | Can't you set the patches up in a Kontakt Bank, and use program change to select the articulations?
Finale 25, Sibelius 8.4, Notion 6, Overture 5.1, Cubase 8.5
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, VSL, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190 |
| Posted By : Ron. - 11/24/2016 11:00 PM | Bill Reed said...
Can't you set the patches up in a Kontakt Bank, and use program change to select the articulations?
I think that's what I suggested a few days ago and got no response.
Finale 25.1
GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.
Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.
www.composeforums.com |
| Posted By : nordensten - 11/25/2016 2:36 AM | Mabt said...
because all I want is to create keyswitch multiarticulation instruments from the separated patch from Berlin Strings and Woodwinds, which are fantastic, but dont include keyswitch. So, if you guys could explain what these programs do with more detail, that would be very helpful.
But BST and BWW are now based on CAPSULE, which supports multipatches and flexible key switching...?
TransMidifier e.g works like this:
In Human Playback, you set articulations (techniques) to switch using Program Changes.
So, say you have Arco on PCh.1 and Pizz on PCh.2 on Midi Channel 1.
In transMidifier you then set up incoming PCh.1 to translate to e.g. outgoing (virtual) Midi Cable 1, Channel 1, and
incoming PCh.2 to translate to outgoing Midi Cable 1, Channel 2.
etc. etc.
While using Kontakt Banks can be useful, you typically lose access to the GUI and easy control over the relative dynamic level between articulations.
(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> v.25) using 2012c & v.25
Cubase 8.5 Pro & Reaper - Vienna Ensemble Pro - Ircam SPAT - Hauptwerk 4 - (Overture 5) - Dorico
Libraries: VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Xsample, Embertone, Wallander, Pianoteq, Sample Modeling, EWQL +++
Garritan Steinway - Garritan CFX pianos
Multiple Windows computers W7/W8.1/i7/32GB |
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