MakeMusic Forum

The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=484629

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/8/2016 4:01 PM

Hello all,

I've had Finale 25 for two weeks, but today was the first time that I had to print out linked parts...

Firstly, I wish Finale hadn't made it an extra step to print out parts...took me a while to find the options to print out specific parts.

Secondly - my parts in landscape mode come out off-center, with a LOT of white space at the top. Is there a way to fix that that anyone's discovered?

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 2014d.v5545
Mac OSX 10.10.5

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 9/8/2016 4:12 PM

Is the page size correct and set to landscape? What happens if you PDF them?
Note that there's a Page size is Page Setup AND in the print menu itself.

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Posted By : thomasmith - 9/8/2016 4:35 PM

DOCTOR Wiggy? Please explain. I know that with your superior knowledge and experience with Finale, you've been healing patients on this forum for some time now.
But I'm guessing that based on that fact, you just didn't decide to start identifying yourself as "Dr."

Thomas Smith
Guitarist, Composer/Arranger, Engraver
Finale 2014.5, (and every previous version since 2.0)
2009 Millay Colony for the Arts Composer Resident
24" iMac 2.8 Ghz Intel Core Duo, 4 Gb RAM; OS 10.11.2
15" MacBook Pro, 2.8 Ghz Intel Core Duo, 4 Gb RAM
iPad running iOS 7
M-Audio Fast Track Pro Audio Interface, M-Audio Keystation 49e
www.thomasmithmusic.com
www.rhinesmithduo.com
www.milmontparkmusic.com

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 9/9/2016 10:45 AM

I'm temporarily celebrating the award of my PhD. It won't last.

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/9/2016 11:50 AM

Congrats, doc, from one Ph.D. to another. All page sizes are set correctly, as are print outputs.

I am using an old template, so...maybe I'll try starting a new one from scratch.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 2014d.v5545
Mac OSX 10.10.5

Posted By : thomasmith - 9/9/2016 12:49 PM

Congratulations. I know how much work and stress that can be for a person.
May it last as long as you would like it to last. (the celebration, that is)

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/10/2016 10:34 PM

If you are attempting to print PDFs and they are off center, here's a knowledge base article:
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/226922648-Margin-alignment-off-center-when-printing-to-PDF-Mac-

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : Daz - 9/10/2016 10:54 PM

Hi Michael

I don't own a Mac, but I found the wording of that helpdesk article a confusing.
Particularly the line " ...please try and add a printer (any printer your own) to the..."

Do you mean to say that people should add a generic postscript printer in addition to any printer they own?

I wonder if that particular article might be re-written to be clearer?

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011, Finale 25 - Win7 64 bit
Core2 Duo i7-4790, 16Gb Ram, Soundblaster Z

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 9/11/2016 2:40 AM

MM seems to suggest that there's a bug in MacOS that if you don't have any Postscript printers, then margins will be off in the printers that you do have when you print to PDF. (It's not clear whether Nikk was having this problem on paper or PDF.

1. In System Preferences, add a second queue for your printer. (Apple calls it "adding a printer", but you can have multiple instances for the same device, so it's adding a print queue really.)
2. Name the printer something like "Postscript"
3. In the drop-down list marked "Use" at the bottom, select "Generic Postscript Printer".

Then use this print queue for Save As PDF.

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Dr. Wiggy) : 9/11/2016 2:43:52 AM (GMT-5)

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/11/2016 8:27 AM

HI Daz:
Excellent feedback, I'll pass along.

Dr. Wiggy gets it right. There is an issue in the Cocoa Printing API (MacOS) that presents itself when you don't have a printer installed.

Thanks for all your help gentlemen. I do hope we can get Nikk on his way.
Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 9/11/2016 8:32 AM

Michael - working on a Sunday...?

If you don't have ANY printer installed, then there's nothing to select when you try to add a print queue. So click on the IP tab, and enter as follows:

Alternatively, you could add a dedicated Print-to-File print queue, such as CUPS-PDF, or my pswrite software on github.

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/11/2016 8:53 AM

My off-center printing was happening (is happening) on both PDFs and on hard copies sent to my laser printer.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 9/11/2016 8:58 AM

What is the ACTUAL page size of the PDF with big margins? Is it what you expect? I.e. Is the page being placed on a larger sheet, or is the music being reduced?

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/11/2016 9:02 AM

Using Finale 2014, when printing out a letter-sized, landscape part (for marching band arrangement purposes), the music is evenly spaced and there appears to be the same appropriate white space on all sides. Using Finale 25, it appears to be moved toward the bottom. Let me see if I can print out some samples (gotta go back to my work computer to access the earlier version of Finale).

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/11/2016 9:06 AM

PS - is there a link to download Finale 2014? I'd like to put it back on my personal laptop until all of these issues with Fin25 are worked out.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 9/11/2016 9:06 AM

The printer will scale or crop your page to the physical paper. What is the page size of the PDF?

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/11/2016 9:07 AM

8.5x11.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/11/2016 9:25 AM

Attached are two PDF prints of the same part, one printed using Finale 2014.5, one printed using Finale 25.

The Finale 25 print is the one with all of the white space up at the top. Now, granted, in older versions the white space was pushed to the bottom, but I think most of you would agree that this is preferable to having all the white space at the top, which makes the printed part look strange.

I am hopeful that there is some setting that I am overlooking, and that it's a user error.

The other thing I am noticing with the new print dialog menu is that it sometimes remembers things I don't want it to remember. For example, no matter what I do, no matter how many times I save my file the way I want it, one of my arrangements always has Clarinet, Alto Saxophone, and Tenor Sax selected to print by default, as opposed to say, having all parts (or none) selected.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 9/11/2016 10:10 AM

Yes, currently, the Finale print settings are not remembered. Note that there is a Page Setup in the File menu AND in the print dialog now. Also double check that your Part page size is Letter landscape. (Use Rulers, not Page Format.)

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Post Edited (Dr. Wiggy) : 9/11/2016 10:19:51 AM (GMT-5)

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/11/2016 11:43 AM

Yeah, I'm working on Sundays -- no rest for the wicked.
You're problem is trying to reproduce the VK show.

I hope you're marching in red chucks with white tuxedo coats. I think that show requires it. haha

I'm using the Finale Document Style of Marching Band to start my file.
I think I get the results you want in v25 with print dialog settings of "Borderless 8.5 x 11" and 2 up printing

If you want to do 1 up printing, then I set it to "Borderless 8.5 x 11" and checked "Fit To Page" in the Finale print settings.

And if you go to Finalemusic.com, log into your account of MakeMusic, click on "my account" in top right corner, you'd be able to download 2014 in the "my software" area

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/15/2016 4:51 PM

Heh - Didn't catch your response until just now, Michael. The VK-inspired "MMT" is a hit with our students. No red converse or tuxedos, however.

I'll try the settings you've mentioned for printing.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/15/2016 5:00 PM

Ok, just tried it with your settings - still leaves a tremendous amount of white space up top (see attached).

Finale 2014 prints it out the way I want it without having to mess around with any settings. Yet another reason to go back to it (no offense to you, Michael, I know you probably have your hands tied in many ways about things you want to have this software be vs. what the powers-that-be want) and get a refund on 25 until things are a little more solid.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : jim dukey - 9/15/2016 8:28 PM

I printed to 2-up 11/17 without problem in Fin 25.

Molecular Computer, Powered by Fusion in a Jar. Finale 3000, Wireless ESP Module, No Physical Interface, Printed Parts Manifest by The Universe,
SOOOO Boring! Now Everybody is Friggin' Mozart.

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/15/2016 8:31 PM

11x17 may be different. 2-up on 8.5x11 (for marching band flip folio purposes) is not working so hot, leaving the aforementioned big spaces up top. Though it is nice to know that when I go to print out my concert ensemble works, that at least will work.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : jim dukey - 9/15/2016 8:33 PM

Did you check to use Finale's orientation instead of the printer's?
That's essential!

Molecular Computer, Powered by Fusion in a Jar. Finale 3000, Wireless ESP Module, No Physical Interface, Printed Parts Manifest by The Universe,
SOOOO Boring! Now Everybody is Friggin' Mozart.

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/15/2016 8:34 PM

Yup - always have that checked off. Though, I've seen enough weirdness in this program that I'm going to go back and triple check.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 9/16/2016 1:57 AM

jim dukey said...
Did you check to use Finale's orientation instead of the printer's?
That's essential!

It's so essential that the control to alter it has been removed in 25.

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Posted By : jim dukey - 9/16/2016 3:58 AM

I don't understand.
It used to in Printing Preferences.
Now it's a check box in the Print Menu.
Check or un-check, isn't that altering it?

Molecular Computer, Powered by Fusion in a Jar. Finale 3000, Wireless ESP Module, No Physical Interface, Printed Parts Manifest by The Universe,
SOOOO Boring! Now Everybody is Friggin' Mozart.

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 9/16/2016 4:42 AM

I don't see anything in 25 print dialog that wasn't in 2014.5 and previous. But the option in Preferences has just been removed.

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Posted By : jim dukey - 9/16/2016 9:47 AM

OK, but what does
"the control to alter it has been removed in 25"
mean?

Molecular Computer, Powered by Fusion in a Jar. Finale 3000, Wireless ESP Module, No Physical Interface, Printed Parts Manifest by The Universe,
SOOOO Boring! Now Everybody is Friggin' Mozart.

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 9/16/2016 10:17 AM

The attached image is from Finale 2014.5. The circled control is not present in Finale 25.

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Posted By : jim dukey - 9/16/2016 10:20 AM

Isn't that choice now available in the Print Dialog?
I don't know how to make that Screen Shot thing, or I'd post that.
Anyway, it works for me and probably I'm misunderstanding what you are saying!

Molecular Computer, Powered by Fusion in a Jar. Finale 3000, Wireless ESP Module, No Physical Interface, Printed Parts Manifest by The Universe,
SOOOO Boring! Now Everybody is Friggin' Mozart.

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/16/2016 2:03 PM

Yes, Dr. Wiggy and Jim are right to make sure under File/Page Setup that the orientation is set to portrait.
I've attached my file file, PDF part, and screen shot of my printer settings to get a small margin at the top.
Good luck with your show; hope you have a great season.

Cheers

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/18/2016 3:27 PM

Well, wait a minute...if I am using the marching band template to create ottavo-like parts, this does not work. Here was what I did prior to Finale 25:

1. Use the Marching Band template and customized it to within an inch of its life...I do NOT want to have to do this again.
2. When printing, I would select "Layout" and print two pages per sheet.
3. The result was exactly the right size for cutting and inserting into the standard flip folio window, I just printed an example using the exact method outlined here in 2014.5, and it is attached.

Now...if I do exactly what you are saying (and please, "check my math" here to see if I am just dumb and not comprehending):

1. I continue to use my marching band template.
2. When printing, instead of Layout in the Drop-Down options, I select the "Layout: 2-up" that is right there on the opening splash screen.
3. I tell it to ignore printer margins.

The problem is...I do NOT get the same result. I get the result that I've attached here as "MMT using 25" which is too large for flip folders.

Ok, so...I go back. This time, using Finale 25, I:

1. Use the "Layout" found in the Drop-Down options.
2. Select two pages per sheet. Print.

This now creates a completely different printout, one with much too much white space at the top. This too is unusable.

So...now I go back and try something else:

1. Use the "Layout" found in the Drop-Down options.
2. Select two pages per sheet.
3. GO BACK to the main menu and select 2-up on both of these options...of course, this is also not the desired product.

Why is it that, in Finale 25, I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT replicate the end result I can get in 2014, 2012, 2011, etc.?

This is beyond frustrating. Am I going to have to start all over from scratch on a new template because some internal setting was changed???

Setting the print settings to Portrait does not result in any difference either - I get the same exact printout as in my second scenario above.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/19/2016 2:14 PM

Hi Nikk:
I'm sorry this is so frustrating. Yes, printing has changed in v25 from previous versions. We had to make some changes to keep up with Apple. I think we're talking past each other here. Could you Private Message me your template so I can see what your page format for Parts are set at and how you configured orientation for the parts? I'm sure we can get to the bottom of the problem, you won't need to recreate your templates, and you can get the output you want in v25.

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : Nikk P. - 9/21/2016 6:37 AM

Will do.

+++++
Nikk P.

Finale 25
Mac OSX 10.11.6
MacBook Pro (Mid-2012, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD)

Posted By : David Clarence - 11/28/2016 12:29 AM

Just a quick thank you to Dr Wiggy. Adding a postscript printer fixed the problem for me.

Finale 2014.5, v25.1
macOS Sierra 10.12
Full TGTools
JW Plug-ins

iMac 21.5" 2.7GHz Intel Core i5 8GB RAM

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