The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=5&m=383575
| Posted By : MusiQuest - 11/14/2012 1:39 AM | | I am trying to indicate a time signature with a top number and instead of a number for the bottom, a note value. So for 4/4 time I would like to put 4 on the top and an actual quarter note beneath it. I cannot find a way to do this and would appreciate any help. Thanks! |
| Posted By : Motet - 11/14/2012 1:43 AM | You could always hide the time signature and put in a fake one with an expression.
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| Posted By : Peter Thomsen - 11/14/2012 1:52 AM | This particular "time signature style" is sometimes called "Orff time signatures" after the composer Carl Orff.
If you want to use "Orff time signatures" everywhere in the document, consider "hiding" the real "time signature denominator" by positioning it so low that it goes below the bottom of the page.
In that way the denominator won't print, and you can add the "note symbol denominator" as an expression.
Peter
Mac Finale, 2011c & 2012c, Dolet 6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.7.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAMPost Edited (Peter Thomsen) : 11/14/2012 5:39:22 AM (GMT-6) |
| Posted By : KennethKen - 11/14/2012 8:19 AM | You should make a feature request to MM to allow the "More Options" window in the Time Signature DBX to allow separate access to numerator and denominator font /font character choices or pre-constructed note durations (like how they have inserting a metronome marking setup).
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| Posted By : TomR - 11/14/2012 9:02 PM | | Hiding the meter and adding your special meter as an shape expression is probably the way to go....I do this for sections of unmetered music where the composer wants the time signature to be a large "0".
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| Posted By : Peter Thomsen - 11/15/2012 1:42 AM | If you hide the "real" time signature, and add a false time signature as an expression, then you will probably like to add extra space at the beginning of the measure.
You can do so in the Measure Attributes (= Measure Tool, double-click the measure).
Peter
Mac Finale, 2011c & 2012c, Dolet 6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.7.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM |
| Posted By : OCTO. - 11/15/2012 3:59 PM | Ferneyhough has 2/10 - where to find it....? just a question!
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| Posted By : Peter Thomsen - 11/15/2012 4:15 PM | You mean where to find a score with 2/10 time signature - or how to do it in Finale?
Peter
Mac Finale, 2011c & 2012c, Dolet 6 plug-in, Mac OS X 10.7.5, iMac Intel Core i7, 2.93 GHz, 16 GB RAM |
| Posted By : Motet - 11/16/2012 11:39 AM | I like the trick of moving the denomator off the page.
Unless I'm missing something, the Orff notation seems frivolous (kind of like his music  ). Is it for people who can't cope with a "4" representing a quarter note, or can't cope with the 1/3ness of compound meter? Or is it so you can put something else in the denominator like a double-dotted quarter?
Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP |
| Posted By : Peter West - 11/16/2012 12:13 PM | The best method for this is to move the bottom number off the page because this retains the space needed for the signature and the upper number is correctly positioned to help alignment. This will make the Orff or Fernyhough signatures a simple matter of creating an expression for the lower number. A little trail and error will result in correct default positioning. Use staff style to ensure it appears on every staff in score and parts.
Peter
Music Publishing Services
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| Posted By : Zuill - 11/16/2012 1:00 PM | If the score signature size is different than the parts, the workaround will be trickier. The default signatures are set up for linked parts to look normal while score might be oversized. You will have to have one expression for the note for the score and one for the parts and do the usual minipulation involving the linking/unlinking.
Zuill
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| Posted By : Charles Lawrence - 11/16/2012 1:01 PM | I found this site which has an online booklet that explains how to make Orff style time signatures in both Finale and Sibelius.
http://wrightstuffmusic.com/2011/08/28/orff-orchestration-notation/
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| Posted By : Flint - 11/16/2012 1:15 PM |
Motet said...
Unless I'm missing something, the Orff notation seems frivolous (kind of like his music ). Is it for people who can't cope with a "4" representing a quarter note, or can't cope with the 1/3ness of compound meter? Or is it so you can put something else in the denominator like a double-dotted quarter "My music is so groundbreaking, no one can even read it properly!"
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If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read |
| Posted By : Derrek - 11/16/2012 1:17 PM | Flint said..."My music is so groundbreaking, no one can even read it properly!"
Love it! 
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| Posted By : Marko - 5/10/2014 2:27 PM | Both workarounds mentioned are great. Yet if your score wants *both* conventional *and* Orff-style signatures, what then? If you use Doc Options / Time Signatures / BottomSymbol to place the denominator off the page, this is applied to *all* timeSignatures in your score - doesn't work if you use changing meters and want Orff style for only 1 or two of those signatures.
In this case you may want the custom made solution – keeping all your regular meters in place, unmodified for position. Use the STAFF tool and **define a Staff Style** whose one parameter is that "Time Signature" is un-checked. Apply this staff style only to the measures using the Orff-signed meter. Also, instead of a global change, broaden the 1st measure needing the custom time sig using the Measure Tool, and move beat 1 and subsequent beats to the right (see Finale help - Measure Tool) to create the extra space for your custom signature.
Now it's on to creating my " 1–over–dotted-half " Orff signature! – MJ |
| Posted By : Mike Rosen - 5/10/2014 4:49 PM | Derrek said...Flint said..."My music is so groundbreaking, no one can even read it properly!" Love it!
The funniest (saddest) thing is, many people are sitting there nodding gravely...
Mike Rosen
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| Posted By : Vaughan - 5/10/2014 6:20 PM | Amen!
Vaughan
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