MakeMusic Forum

The original version of this page can be found at : http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=482748

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/17/2016 9:28 AM

Hello.
Before doing anything more complex and sensitive, I would like to discuss your opinion on running Finale v25 on OS X based machines.
The most important for me is the speed and stability (no rainbow or *disappear!)
Let us know your opinion in time to come.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

Posted By : Steve Gruver - 8/17/2016 9:40 AM

I just upgraded to v25. The speed and stability on my MacOS machine is fantastic.

The only downfall is that non 64-bit plug-ins (i.e. TGtools, JW, etc...) do not work.

-----
Steve Gruver

MacBook Pro 10.11.4
Edirol PCR-30 Midi Keyboard Controller
MacFin2014.5
Scarlett 18i8 Audio Interface

Posted By : Vaughan - 8/17/2016 9:47 AM

Good news: Robert Patterson's plugins do work.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014.5, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.11.5
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/17/2016 9:59 AM

Please, can you confirm your testing:
- OS X version
- Score size

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

Posted By : Vaughan - 8/17/2016 10:15 AM

More good news: Finale 25's treatment of lyrics seems to be much improved. I just tried working on a medium-sized document with about 6500 frame assignments and quite a lot of lyrics and the lyrics window appears instantaneously, scrolling is quick, selecting and changing syllables is also instantaneous, whether from within the lyrics window or using Type Into Score. Will keep testing.

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Robert Patterson plugins, waiting for Tobias' and Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.11.6
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/19/2016 2:34 AM

Please, using Finale v25, open this file created in v25 and try typing random notes.
How about speed?
I get rainbows all the time.
It is basically impossible to work on large scores.
MakeMusic, any response?

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

Posted By : Dr. Wiggy - 8/19/2016 3:48 AM

Scroll View seems to work fine. Things are also slightly better if you turn of Auto Update Layout and Music Spacing in Prefs.

Is that a brand new file from Maestro Default, or is it an old template? Might be worth building a file from scratch just to rule out any document 'cruft'.

"This is me helping."

Finale v.25, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.6)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/19/2016 5:04 AM

It is the Default provided by MakeMusic. I just started a new piece from the default.

So, Wiggy, you say it is lagging?

Unfortunately, the Auto Update Layout and Music Spacing should be kept on, as well work in Page View. It is like buying a brand new Mercedes with 260 horse-power and than driving in max 30 mph.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

Posted By : Daz - 8/19/2016 6:11 AM

OCTO. said...
...It is like buying a brand new Mercedes with 260 horse-power and than driving in max 30 mph.

In Western Australia you get fined if you drive at that speed on most suburban roads, Mercedes or not

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/19/2016 7:11 AM

Daz, I understand. Please focus on the subject.
I need more people to confirm this, if it is not true, than my computer is lagging. Which is strange, I have newest MBP 15', with the dedicated graphics.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

Posted By : Daz - 8/19/2016 8:07 AM

Hi Octo

Have you seen this article?
It has some benchmarks. There is also this one

On the Windows side, I have noticed no real problems with performance. Mind you, I skipped Finale 2012, 2014 and 2014.5/

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit

Post Edited (Daz) : 8/19/2016 8:42:30 AM (GMT-5)

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/19/2016 8:19 AM

Yes, I have seen. Therefore I started with this thread, since in vitro everything is to much abstract. We need in vivo testing.
I am tempted to use MuseScore. Really. I have created as heavy document in MuseScore 2 and the speed is perfect.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Posted By : Mark Adler - 8/19/2016 11:37 AM

Octo. has asked me to respond to this thread. While the file provided certainly provides a valid stress test, one that is very similar to files we have used in our own testing, if you are interested in gauging Finale v25 performance in real world situations, I would refer you to the independent reviews referenced by Daz.

Mark F. Adler
Notation Product Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/19/2016 11:55 AM

Daz: so you don't use OS X and you don't use anything after 2011, but you are active on this thread. That is not so helpful.

Mark Adler said...
While the file provided certainly provides a valid stress test, one that is very similar to files we have used in our own testing,

Mark: what have your tests shown?

I have started editing an orchestral piece in v2014, and v25. I enter a note, and than rainbow, enter the next note and than rainbow.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Posted By : Motet - 8/19/2016 11:58 AM

Try editing in Scroll View with Automatic Update Layout turned off.

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Posted By : Daz - 8/19/2016 12:12 PM

Hi Octo

OCTO. said...
Daz: so you don't use OS X and you don't use anything after 2011, but you are active on this thread. That is not so helpful.

I Use Finale 25. I opened the file that you uploaded, out of interest and had no problems with it. I'm playing with a file that has around 60 staves, and about 150 measures. The score is very busy and I have no issue entering notes via simple entry.

I do admit to not using the mac, but I though that it might be of interest to point out that there appear to be no speed issues with Windows.

I also thought that the articles that I pointed out might help you determine if it was something on your setup which is causing a problem.

Cheers...

Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit

Posted By : Mark Adler - 8/19/2016 12:42 PM

Octo.,

I opened your score using Finale v25 on a Mac Mini running OS 10.11. When I enter notes in both speedy and simple entry, I do not ever see the spinning ball.
As has been pointed out, if you do your note entry in scroll view, you will see improvement in performance. If you insist on using page view, I would suggest putting fewer measures on each page, at least until you are done with note entry. Using your score, when I reduced the number of measures per system from 100 to 18, performance improved.

Mark F. Adler
Notation Product Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/19/2016 1:27 PM

Thank you. I just hope that the new version will be robust and responsive.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Posted By : Harpsi - 8/20/2016 3:43 AM

This is a long shot but could be useful to test. NB, I am on Windows.
The other day I happened to be working in page view with show current page only. In this way, the show active layer only command was very quick, something that normally (show multiple pages or scroll view) takes a long long time. How is your page view set? Current page or something else?

Finale 2014.5, Win 10, Korg M1, Oxygen 25

Posted By : jpj - 8/20/2016 7:16 AM

Octo, opened your score and tried random notes in scroll and page view, all ok.
I used to have this problem with 2014.5 and yosemite and had to change to 2014d in order to work on a large opera score. El capitan and v25 seem much better although not exactly lightning fast!

jp

Mac OS 10.11.6
Finale v25

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 8/20/2016 9:44 PM

Hi Octo:
My steps on a mid 2012 MacBook Pro running 10.11.6 with 8 GB of RAM.

1. Launch Finale
2. open your score (no other files open)
3. Kept your formatting / remained in Page view Book Style: Row
4. Simple Entry, QWERTY entry no MIDI: enter D E D quarter notes
Viewing at 100% -- no lack and no spinning beachball / Spinning Pizza of Death / Rainbow
I then incremented down 10% via Cmd+0 to set view percentage and repeated step 4.
Results:
90% - no lag
80% - no lag
70% - spinning beachball of ~ .5 second
60% - spinning beachball of ~ .5 second
50% - spinning beachball of ~ .75 second
40% - spinning beachball of ~ 1 second
30% - spinning beachball of ~ 1.5 seconds
20% - spinning beachball of ~ 2 seconds

At what view percent do you see spinning beachball / Spinning Pizza of Death / Rainbow & unicorns?

Cheers,
Michael

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : David Ward - 8/21/2016 2:12 AM

Michael, I'd be interested to know the effect of enlarged view percentages, such as one might use with a large portrait oriented monitor, on the Speedy Entry speed via QWERTY in v25. I routinely have page view at around 250%, scroll at all sorts of different %s.*

I alternate between page and scroll view when entering from my pencil sketches. I make frequent use of page as well as scroll view as I'm continually making changes, however definitive my pencil score might at first have seemed.

I probably won't download v25 before I've completed the first Finale draft of my current project (ETA October), but it's very useful to read the comments and reports in anticipation of this download.

*EDIT: Additional comment.

I should perhaps explain that although I would expect many full scores to be printed to B4, A3 or even B3, my Finale page set-up is always for A4. Since all these sizes have identical proportions, it is just a question of adjusting the % as required for the printing. Hence my on-screen page view's often being at 225–250%. I presume (but I'm not sure) that if my Finale page was set-up as A3 then the view % might be smaller for the same display result.

David Ward
www.composers-uk.com/davidward

Finale 2014d & 2014.5 with Mac 10.9.5 & 10.11.6
Finale 2010b with Mac 10.6.8
full TGTools

Since 2001 have used F 2001, 2003, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2014

“We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.” JFK

Post Edited (David Ward) : 8/21/2016 5:00:04 AM (GMT-5)

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/21/2016 4:49 AM

The spinning ball is found in an orchestral piece of mine opened in v25 and v2014.5 (not attached here). The spinning ball lasts about 5-10 sec for EACH note input.

In this experimental file (attached above) the spinning ball is not found, however, the lag is obvious. Except that it takes about 1-2 seconds to enter one single note, notes also flicker so that when you type a note all other notes are jumping around until they are put on place. The flickering is found also on my PC (but older).
I just want to confirm that I use a very powerful computer, with a dedicated graphical card (AMD) and i7 Mac book Pro, SSD, 16GB RAM.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Posted By : David Ward - 8/21/2016 5:28 AM

OCTO, I just tried your huge score in 2014.5 (not what you asked for, I know) using Speedy entry and QWERTY and at 600% page view, looseleaf, current only.

I entered musically irrational figures involving quite a few notes of different values and pitches, accidentals, articulations &c on various staves on page one. Note entry was and remained at full speed, near instant, although exiting the speedy frame by keying '0' (zero) was noticeably slower than instant and was beginning to become frustrating. On the unlabelled bass clef stave immediately above Violin I, I entered a vocal line. Adding lyrics to this via Type in Score was VERY VERY slow indeed, caused the screen to go momentarily blank, and would very likely soon have become near-enough impossible.

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/21/2016 6:26 AM

How about to enter with the Simple Entry as I do?

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Posted By : David Ward - 8/21/2016 8:02 AM

OCTO. said...
How about to enter with the Simple Entry as I do?

I'm very far from fluent in Simple Entry, but there definitely seems to be a substantial delay adding further notes (I haven't deleted my earlier effort) when I try with Simple.

Posted By : wolfwro - 8/21/2016 10:35 AM

Hi Octo,

entering on my imac (3,2Ghz, i5) 32GB RAM in Finale 25:

Pageview, simple entry: very slight delay in maximum zoom, but no Beach Ball.
Speedy: slight delay.
Scroll view: no delay

cheers,

wolf

-intel 27" imac 3,2 (i5) Ghz 32 GB RAM MAC OSX 10.11.6
-Macbook pro 2,6 (i5) Ghz, 16GB RAM, MAC OSX 10.11.6
German version of Finale 98-2007c/English: 2008b-2014d, 2014.5
M-Audio Keystation49

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 8/21/2016 11:39 AM

Hi David: my testing was showing that Finale will slow down if you're rendering lots of music on the screen. Given the density of Octo's test file, I would likely work on it around 250% and like you, alternate between scroll and page view depending on my task. Anything above 100% is instant for me. Of course, your mileage may vary depending your system, workflow, and stuff.
Octo: I've looked through this thread a few times and have yet to note where you mention what view percentage and page view settings your using. Just saying it is really hard to have a meaningful discussion if it isn't clear what your steps are or what your objective is. Furthermore, if you're doing same tests in MuseScore, I'd be curious what those steps and timings are.

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : Wess - 8/21/2016 5:48 PM

In order to check the responsiveness of the last version I attempt a test using OCTO's set up and input some non-sense notes.
The test presents a single page with even less bars compared to the original empty template.
The navigation (using "Grab tool" or Mouse scroller or on MAC) is incompatible for graph software issued in 2016.

I tested it on my iMAC late 2013, CPU – I7 3.5 GHz, 24 GB RAM, GPU – Nvidia 775 with 2 GB RAM, SSD SATAIII

The lag on this single page is so sluggish and apparently this version (and both previous 2014 and 2014.5, too) can not be used for such dense projects.
Exported as 2012 the situation is slightly better but I was surprised when I checked the same content opened (via XML) in Sibelius 7.5.

The difference in speed is incompatible running this test on the same iMAC.
Large files Saving in Sibelius is fast as seen on all pre-2014 version.
There are also possibility to export the music content as previous version till 2.0 and their flat format does not need "special attention" when saving.
I know that OS X' antialiasing filter is something that makes recent Mac versions much slower than WIN version.
However Sibelius utilises the same OS and recently works blazingly fast compared to Finale.

Why the MM developer do not find the right code?
Speaking yesterday with friend of mine from Oslo he told me: "All my program run very fast on my new Mac with only one exception ... Finale."

Should it be like that, MM, and if "yes" why then?

Finale 2014 and earlier...
________________________________________
iMac 27" (late 2013) i7-3.50GHz, Nvidia 775 2GB, 24 GB RAM, 1 TB Fusion drive. Mavericks 10.9.2
External A+B: 1TB SSD Samsung EVO 840 + 4 TB WD Black (Thunderbolt/USB3 enclosure)
External C: 2TB WD via FireWire800 (Thunderbolt-FireWire 800 adapter)
Second monitor: HP LP2475w (Thunderbolt-HDMI cable)

Macbook pro 17" (2009) 2.80 GHz, RAM 8 GB, 500GB SSD Samsung EVO 840

MIDI: hybride piano
YAMAHA Avant Grand N1

CUSTOM MUSC FONTS & SAMPLES – VintageGHMA (Henle) & VintageECP1 (Peter's)

Post Edited (Wess) : 8/21/2016 5:55:12 PM (GMT-5)

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/21/2016 11:18 PM

Dear Michael Johnson,

I have used View at 600 or 800%.
I use "Single page" view.
The delay is enough in Simple Entry. What I mean "enough" is that test was done by using with a very limited number of information (a few notes).

The definitely delay is present in re-calculation of note spacing, as I can see.
Can you check that? I am happy that other users report back (using OS X) so that I can be assured something is wrong with my system.

MuseScore - the delay is not present at any level, similar as I would work in a four instrument score.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Posted By : OCTO. - 8/21/2016 11:22 PM

P.S. I have tested Wess' file, and have got short rainbows always as well flickering note-heads (they become "fat" somehow for a short time - a kind of graphical thing). Therefore the lag is even more obvious in that files.
UPDATE: Sorry, the file was opened in v.2014.5 In v25 no flickering but the lag persists (I enter note, wait for 2-3 sec). Seems that note-spacing algorithm is the issue.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Post Edited (OCTO.) : 8/21/2016 11:26:32 PM (GMT-5)

Posted By : jasako - 8/22/2016 6:56 AM

I've been using Finale 25 for a week or so now with a file of 680 bars, 75 staff systems and over 71000 frames.
I'm finding things are much improved seed-wise compared to 2014.5.
Page view is still significantly slower than scroll view, but much better than previously. Single page is more responsive than Current spread or Looseleaf: Row.
Dragging staves with the Staff Tool is also much improved and it was this in 2014.5 that was starting to drive me nuts more than anything else, as were significant delays in selecting items in Page View.
My iMac is getting on (2011 model 27" with 8G of RAM) and over due for an upgrade so I'm looking forward to better performance still on a new machine with 16G.

Adelaide Australia
(In the middle, down the bottom)
iMac 2.7 Ghz Intel Core i5
Macbook Air
OSX Yosimite 10.10.5
Finale 2014.5.7098
Finale 2014.c.v4736
GPO 4
Acorn Masterkey 61

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 8/22/2016 10:19 AM

Hi Octo:
Automatic Music Spacing and Automation Update Layout have always slowed Finale down. It is on the radar to address such issues, but not in the short term.
Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : Motet - 8/22/2016 11:59 AM

The file Octo posted doesn't present a problem on Windows with my 10-year-old desktop, so I suspect it's more than just a Finale architecture issue.

Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Posted By : Wess - 8/22/2016 4:30 PM

Motet said...
The file Octo posted doesn't present a problem on Windows with my 10-year-old desktop, so I suspect it's more than just a Finale architecture issue.

Thank you, Motet for this information.
Many users, including me too, already suspect that the slow performance seen by last versions of Finale is only Mac issue.

Posted By : OCTO. - 9/1/2016 11:20 PM

Michael Johnson said...
Hi Octo:
Automatic Music Spacing and Automation Update Layout have always slowed Finale down. It is on the radar to address such issues, but not in the short term.
Cheers,

I am sorry to hear.

I think other products are on the radar for me. Having been with Finale for past 17 years, I am now more than sure it is my last year.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Post Edited (OCTO.) : 9/1/2016 11:28:54 PM (GMT-5)

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/7/2016 2:14 PM

Dear Octo
Thank you for your use of the product all these years. We will continue to improve Finale; you are always welcome to try the free demo version as your leisure.
I wish you well.
Sincerely,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : OCTO. - 9/8/2016 3:57 AM

I would like to STRESS a need to improve Finale on OS X platform.

If Finale 2014 and v25 is slower than Finale 2011, on the stronger machine, than what is the reason for updates?
There is an URGENT need to improve Finale's speed on OS X, and I hope this will be released very soon in the next update of V25.

I speak here as one who uses Finale for extremely complex and dense projects.

You need to help us.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/8/2016 10:50 AM

Hi Octo:
I couldn't agree more. Speed of Finale on mac is an issue. For me, it is the top priority on Mac.
Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : Jeremy Levy - 9/8/2016 5:25 PM

Michael,

Glad to hear Mac speed is a top priority. I would like to make sure we're all talking about the same thing. I find on my system, Finale 2014 and up run much quicker when it's just my laptop screen, compared to my usual work setup plugged into a 28" monitor, running at the equivalent of 2560x1440. Finale 2011 and 2012 have no problem at that resolution. I'm running 2014 and up in low resolution mode, so there is no difference there.

Is there any possibility of Finale using hardware graphic acceleration to smooth out graphics performance in the future? Finale is the only pro audio application where I have sluggishness of scrolling and basic operation in and out of windows.

Jeremy Levy
Composer, Arranger, Orchestrator
Los Angeles, CA
www.jlevymusic.com
Finale 2011-2014.5
OSX 10.9.5

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/11/2016 11:52 AM

Hi Jeremy:
Thanks for your support and question. Finale absolutely needs to be able to utilize graphic acceleration in the future. Yes, Finale is behind the competition in this regard - depressing to say and admit. Finale had optimized what it could for many years. But, the OS had changed rendering routines and then graphic cards got in on the action. Finale has to change to be viable. It will be no small feat, if it had been we would have done it by now. But, it is the next big thing on the list.

Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : A.S. - 9/12/2016 3:04 AM

Michael Johnson said...
Hi Jeremy:
Thanks for your support and question. Finale absolutely needs to be able to utilize graphic acceleration in the future. Yes, Finale is behind the competition in this regard - depressing to say and admit. Finale had optimized what it could for many years. But, the OS had changed rendering routines and then graphic cards got in on the action. Finale has to change to be viable. It will be no small feat, if it had been we would have done it by now. But, it is the next big thing on the list.

Cheers,

Hi Michael,

This is good to hear. But just to make sure I understand you correct: Will you make sure that Finale will be fast enough even for those of us with larger Retina monitors?

At the moment I have to use my brand new iMac 27 in Finale's low res mode. Would be great to be able to use the 4k resolution from the Retina screen (which is fantastic with Finale btw. It's just too slow to work with.)

Cheers and thanks for taking part in these discussions. It is very much appreciated.

A.S.

iMac 27" 5K Retina 4 GHz i7, 24 GB RAM, Mac OS 10.10.5 + 30" Cinema Display
Finale 2014d, GPO 4.0, VSL (SE, Strings SE+, Woodwind & Brass download instr), VE Pro, Vienna Suite, Xsample Chamber Ensemble

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/12/2016 10:58 AM

Hi A.S.
Of course your mileage may vary and "fast enough" is rather vague, but yes, large Retina is modern and we must to be modern.
For me, Finale is a tool and the tool should never, or perhaps rarely, get in the way of creativity and productivity. Just like music, the instrument should be an extension of the musician. We're not there yet and I sincerely appreciate your patience.
Glad I can offer a little help and insight.
Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : Jeremy Levy - 9/12/2016 11:16 AM

A.S.

My monitor is also 4K, so I feel your pain. It's excruciatingly slow running in Hi-Res mode. It's a drag seeing Digital Performer and Cubase perform so well in Retina mode, and then having to go back to blurry text in Finale because the screen rendering can't keep up. FYI, Sibelius is almost as bad in Retina mode.

The good news is that it's not very noticeable in low-res mode if you run your 4K monitor in high resolution scaled mode. Everything is small enough that it still looks fine.

Jeremy Levy
Composer, Arranger, Orchestrator
Los Angeles, CA
www.jlevymusic.com
Finale 2011-2014.5
OSX 10.9.5

Posted By : David Ward - 9/12/2016 3:00 PM

I'm now being hit by Finale's grinding almost to a halt in page view (F 2014.5 with OS 10.11.6) in my present project. I alternate between page and scroll view. When I return to page view, I need to reposition the score on my portrait oriented monitor before doing anything else. After about half an hour of work, this becomes almost uncontrollable. Yesterday I had the surreal experience of trying to reposition the score and then watching it refuse to stop moving. With a series of small jerks it kept going until it had exited stage left in its entirety (this process took at least a minute).

A relaunch of Finale both settles and speeds things for a while; but not for long. This is an opera, with all that implies for layout, stage directions &c &c, but as these things go its demands on Finale are quite modest and it is a very long way from being the largest or most complex score I have typeset in Finale. It's for quite modest forces (as these things go) and uses a maximum of about 53 staves (or thereby). I've found it convenient to divide the piece into eleven separate files (so nothing hugely long). Nearly (if not quite) all the notation is 'traditional', there are no very complex or independent time signatures &c.

Anyway, the regular need to relaunch Finale is beginning to get annoying. A seriously dense and complex score like some of those by OCTO would, I think, be impossible to manage as things are at present without a radically different set-up.

Post Edited (David Ward) : 9/12/2016 3:07:46 PM (GMT-5)

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/12/2016 6:53 PM

Hi David:
We addressed some speed issues around time signature changes in the latest version. Have you tried the demo of v25 to see if that helps? I'm just curious.
Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : David Ward - 9/13/2016 5:22 AM

Michael Johnson said...
… … Have you tried the demo of v25 to see if that helps? I'm just curious.

No. I'm leaving that until after I've finished the first complete Finale draft of my current project (ETA mid-October) and also until there is full availability of Jari's plugins for v25 (I'm so dependent on these for my way of working that I can't really test it without them).

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/13/2016 12:44 PM

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Posted By : OCTO. - 9/14/2016 1:31 AM

Dear Michael,

I don't want to be repetitive, and I guess you would agree.

MM's product Finale is used by many professional editors for their publications. Music created by Finale is used by the top-class performers worldwide.

The latency problem (slowness, non responsiveness, etc) is de facto killing Finale - I don't want to say how important it is for your business - and for our business. But we have alternatives.

I think that not years but months or to say - weeks are working against you. If it is not fixed sooner, I predict really a bad outcome.

NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d 2014.5
Yosemite, MPB 15', 16GB RAM.
+ iMac + MacBook - older.

Posted By : Vaughan - 9/14/2016 10:26 AM

+1!

Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 25, Sibelius 4 - 7
Robert Patterson plugins, waiting for Tobias' and Jari's plugin update
MacOS 10.11.6
MacPro (2016) 16 GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8 GB

Amsterdam

Posted By : Knut - 9/15/2016 2:18 AM

+1!

13" MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz. Intel Core i5, 16 GB RAM, Apogee Duet 2, Samsung SyncMaster 245b
OSX 10.9.5, Finale 2011c and 2014b (not using it yet) w/GPO & JABB, Patterson Plug-Ins, TG-Tools and QuickKeys 4; Sibelius 6, Logic Pro X, Adobe CS3, FontLab Studio 4, FontExplorer X Pro 3

Posted By : Wess - 9/16/2016 10:10 AM

+1!

Posted By : Michael Johnson - 9/23/2016 1:55 PM

Thank you Octo for sharing your thoughts.
Cheers,

Michael Johnson

MacBook Pro
10.11
2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM

Need Support? | Forum Help Manual