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Eino
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   Posted 3/12/2009 6:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hello everyone!

I'm at situation where I need to develop my own plugin(s) for Finale (2007 mac and 2009 win). Looked at Finale's download section where I found only PDK's 98 and 2000. Downloaded them and saw that the documentation is very very old. (Yes mac's are ONLY 68k or PPC!!!)

I contacted customer support as many have adviced at this forum to get the latest PDK. Phew, never thought how hard it is to get updated PDK. I ended up into 3 days of e-mail exchange and a result that you won't believe:

Customer Support said...

Eino,

We do not have the plug-in developer kits available for versions of Finale older than 2008. They were available when those versions were current, yes, and this is how plug-ins were developed for those versions. These kits are no longer available.

Michael D.
MakeMusic Technical Support


So in other words, there's no way to get PDK others than 98 and 2000 for either Win or Mac. And as they said I just can't get any other version since they aren't available.

Thank you Makemusic!

Post Edited By Moderator (Forum Admin) : 11/23/2009 9:36:36 AM (GMT-6)

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 3/12/2009 8:44 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Eino

Welcome to the forum.

I have previously been directed to the 2003 and 2007 PDKs. The 2003 PDK was called the "finished" version, and which it was claimed would still produce viable plug-ins for newer versions of Finale. The 2007 PDK was claimed to be "beta" or not quite release candidate, with less documentation.

The message from Customer Support suggests that they are unwilling to provide you with OLD PDKs, "for versions of Finale older than 2008". Perhaps they misunderstood your request. The 2003 and 2007 PDKs should still work with 2008 and 2009 version of Finale, AFAIK.

Perhaps you could ask MM for clarification of their policy on providing PDKs for current version of Finale. Or, who knows, perhaps someone from MM might explain it here.


Finale 2009b, 2Ghz iMac, OS X 10.5.6, M-Audio Audiophile USB
M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Saffron
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   Posted 3/12/2009 11:13 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

This is something that I, too, would like to get my paws on, because I've got some interesting ideas for plug-ins.

Why won't MM publish links to these versions, while bizarrely still listing the 98 and 2000 ones?

Brian



 

Post Edited (Saffron) : 8/5/2009 5:56:38 AM (GMT-5)

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Eino
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   Posted 3/12/2009 1:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you all for your quick replies!

As I stated before, I have been requesting PDK via e-mail for the past 3 days. Customer Support always replies my messages but they refuse to give my any link to any version of PDK.

In my last post to MM I specifically asked for 2003 and/or 2004 PDK. Well, you've seen the reply. My first priority is to develope a series of simple plugins for 2007 version under mac os x (intel architecture). Since the only PDK for mac is still 68k/PPC I really got concerned. A moment ago I downloaded the 2000 PDK for win32 and I'm trying to get this baby working...

I'll still page MM and try once again to get my hands on 2003 PDK. I'll let you know how it happens.
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Michael Good
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   Posted 3/12/2009 6:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Don't ask for the 2003 PDK - ask for the latest and greatest PDK, whatever version that may be. You don't want the 2003 PDK if you are trying to develop for an Intel Mac. Finale 2003 was released long before there were Intel Macs, so obviously a PDK for 2003 could not support them.


Michael Good
Recordare LLC
 

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Saffron
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   Posted 3/12/2009 7:19 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michael, does the latest-and-greatest enable you to create plug-ins for earlier versions of Finale?

Brian


 

Post Edited (Saffron) : 8/5/2009 5:57:34 AM (GMT-5)

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Michael Good
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   Posted 3/13/2009 11:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As Dolet for Finale, TGTools, and the Patterson plug-ins demonstrate, you can make plug-ins that work from Finale 2000 through 2009 on Windows, and 2004 through 2009 on Mac. Finale 2000 was the last incompatible change to the PDK, but the OS 9 / OS X change combined with the PPC / Intel change causes the compatibility issue on the Mac side. Naturally the features change across versions, so the more Finale versions you support, the more if statements you need.


Michael Good
Recordare LLC
 

Post Edited (Michael Good) : 3/13/2009 11:19:10 AM (GMT-5)

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Saffron
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   Posted 3/13/2009 12:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Thanks, Michael, though what you have said doesn't answer my question.

Many of Finale's current plug-ins were written once upon a time, perhaps for Finale 2000, and have not even been recompiled since. What this proves is that the old 2000 PDK can create plug-ins that work in later versions of Finale - but that wasn't what I was asking!

My question, specifically, is whether the latest PDK still supports older versions of Finale, at least as far back as (say) 2000?

Brian


 

Post Edited (Saffron) : 8/5/2009 5:56:49 AM (GMT-5)

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Michael Good
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   Posted 3/13/2009 12:58 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Your statement about plug-ins not being recompiled is not correct. As Eino noticed, you can't even get a Finale plug-in to run on a current Intel Mac with the 2000 PDK.


Michael Good
Recordare LLC
 

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Saffron
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   Posted 3/13/2009 1:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry Michael, but you are provably wrong. Many of Finale's plug-ins (Windows, at least) remain identical between multiple successive releases of Finale. As just one example, consider the "Cautionary Accidentals" plug-in, one of the few I use with any regularity. Here is a list of the partial SHA-256 hash values from the Finale 2003, 2005 and 2006 versions:

----------------------------------
386-Check 5.10 - created 09 Mar 09
Copyright (c) 2009 - Brian D Steel
----------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\Program Files\Finale 2005\Plug-ins\Note, Beam, and Rest Editing\
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CTNACC32.FXT                     98,304 28-JAN-2005 20:05:00 ----R 1054107DC577
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\Program Files\Finale 2003\Plug-ins\
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CTNACC32.FXT                     98,304 04-DEC-2002 20:03:00 ----R 1054107DC577
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\Program Files\Finale 2006\Plug-ins\Note, Beam, and Rest Editing\
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CTNACC32.FXT                     98,304 27-DEC-2005 20:06:00 ----R 1054107DC577
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 3 Files        294,912 Bytes ID=8015EF15 126BBC00 F542EC9B5134

As you can see, the files are identical, and so cannot have been recompiled. The same is true of many of the other plug-ins: the actual files shipped with old versions of Finale are identical, to the very last byte, to those shipped with later versions. Self-evidently, then, those created with older versions of the PDK work fine with later versions of Finale.

Brian


 

Post Edited (Saffron) : 8/5/2009 5:56:58 AM (GMT-5)

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Michael Good
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   Posted 3/13/2009 7:09 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
But Finale 2006 was released nearly 4 years ago and does not support Intel Macs except under Rosetta. So what was true in Finale 2006 has very little to do with what is true today - especially for Macs, where the whole development world has changed since then.


Michael Good
Recordare LLC
 

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Saffron
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   Posted 3/13/2009 7:42 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michael, you are still not answering my question, which I'll repeat here: "Does the latest PDK allow you to create plug-ins for ealier versions of Finale?"
 
I should perhaps add, I'm not personally interested in Mac plug-ins, only Windows. And my statement about non-recompilation is specifically about Windows versions of Finale. Windows doesn't have "Rosetta", or issues with "IBM PowerPC" vs. "Intel x86" architecture.
 
All I want to do is implement a powerful AI-based scripting language for Finale, using an engine that I have been selling commercially for other purposes for 20 years on Intel platforms, and I want to hook it up using a plug-in interface that will work from around Finale 2000 (and certainly, for personal reasons, 2005) up till the present. And my observations, as outlined recently, prove that (in Windows) older plug-ins work correctly with later versions of Finale ...
 
... but is the same true in reverse?
 
Brian


 

Post Edited (Saffron) : 8/5/2009 5:57:15 AM (GMT-5)

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Saffron
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   Posted 3/18/2009 6:22 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michael, FWIW, I'm still keen to know the answer to my question: Can you build plug-ins for older versions of Finale with the newest PDK?

I already know the reverse is true ... :-)
 
Brian


 

Post Edited (Saffron) : 8/5/2009 5:57:20 AM (GMT-5)

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Forum Admin
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   Posted 3/19/2009 9:10 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Saffron,

I was able to do a little research on our end here.  The current PDK includes a file called oldpdkstructs.h, which defines all of the previous versions of the structures.  So, technically you can write old plug-ins with the new PDK.  This would require that the programmer knows how to use the old structures to both set the version correctly for the plug-in as a whole, as well as for each structure that they use in the plug-in.

 

Thanks,

Andrew



Forum Administrator

MakeMusic, Inc.


Post Edited (Forum Admin) : 3/19/2009 1:20:13 PM (GMT-5)

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Saffron
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   Posted 3/19/2009 7:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Andrew,

Thanks, that's very helpful. I might be in a position to spend some time investigating and developing some experimental plug-ins in a couple of months' time, and will get in touch with MM nearer the time.

Brian


 

Post Edited (Saffron) : 8/5/2009 5:56:18 AM (GMT-5)

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Doug Mudd
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   Posted 6/26/2009 5:32 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Hello Andrew,

I have just joined the forum for the specific purpose of developing (or to find someone to develop) a plug-in that I need.

Your last post made reference to "the current pdk".  I gather that I am not the only one who would like instructions on how to actually get a hold of the current pdk.

Please, where can I find a link to the current pdk!  Thanks in advance.

Doug

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JackMurray
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   Posted 11/17/2009 3:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'de like to write a custom plugin too, but it sounds like this issue has to be resolved first.
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Forum Admin
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   Posted 11/23/2009 10:47 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

All,

I’ve changed the title of this thread to more accurately represent the current topics being discussed.  I thought a more accurate title would be helpful in directing others that were interested in this conversation to this thread.     

I am checking with our engineers on the availability of the current PDK, and there will be an official statement made soon. 

Thanks,

Andrew


Forum Administrator
MakeMusic, Inc.

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 11/24/2009 11:07 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Forum Admin said...
I am checking with our engineers on the availability of the current PDK, and there will be an official statement made soon.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> ]

Hopefully, some good news......?


Finale 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.1
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Saffron
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   Posted 11/24/2009 5:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Forum Admin said...

All,

I’ve changed the title of this thread to more accurately represent the current topics being discussed.  I thought a more accurate title would be helpful in directing others that were interested in this conversation to this thread.     

I am checking with our engineers on the availability of the current PDK, and there will be an official statement made soon. 

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew, what would be really cool would be to get MM to place all their PDKs on a publicly accessible FTP site. It seems crazy that those of us willing to spend our own time and effort developing plug-ins to enhance your software, have to jump through such an inaccessible initial series of hoops!
 
Brian


 

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Motet
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   Posted 1/1/2010 12:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Forum Admin said...

 

I am checking with our engineers on the availability of the current PDK, and there will be an official statement made soon. 

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew--any word?


Finale 2005b
Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 3
Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 @ 2.80 GHz, 4 GB of RAM

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Motet
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   Posted 1/11/2010 12:18 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Forum Admin said...

All,

I’ve changed the title of this thread to more accurately represent the current topics being discussed.  I thought a more accurate title would be helpful in directing others that were interested in this conversation to this thread.     

I am checking with our engineers on the availability of the current PDK, and there will be an official statement made soon. 

Thanks,

Andrew

Did I miss the official statement?


Finale 2005b
Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 3
Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 @ 2.80 GHz, 4 GB of RAM

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Motet
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   Posted 1/18/2010 6:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When will the current PDK become available?


Finale 2005b
Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 3
Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 @ 2.80 GHz, 4 GB of RAM

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 1/22/2010 11:32 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet -

I don't think there's been an official announcement yet. And you how occasional the MM presence is on these boards. Perhaps you should contact MM directly and see what they say?


Finale 2009c, 2Ghz iMac; 2Ghz MacBook, 10.6.1
Edirol FA-66; M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha PSR-410
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Daniele Ghisi
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   Posted 3/19/2010 4:56 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
Forum Admin said...




I am checking with our engineers on the availability of the current PDK, and there will be an official statement made soon.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">

Thanks,

Andrew
Andrew--any word?


Is there anybody who can say an approximate date? How "soon" is "soon"??
I think that we all *really* need it...

Thanks
Daniele
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