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Dainis
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   Posted 2/12/2005 1:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Anyone out there have any experience creating spatial notation in Finale?

Sincerely,
Dainis
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Dainis
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   Posted 2/16/2005 1:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Maybe people use other notation programs to create spatial notation?

--Dainis
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Gareth Green
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   Posted 2/16/2005 2:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Maybe some of us have no idea what "spatial notation" is?
 
smilewinkgrin 


 
Gareth J. Green
 
Fin2005
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"Trumpet players have no use for musicianship; it's too much like having a conscience"
 

"We can tell when a technology has truly arrived when the new problems it gives rise to approach in magnitude the problems it was designed to solve." - Arthur Chandler, 1997

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Zuill
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   Posted 2/16/2005 2:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I think this page has some examples:

http://newmusicnotation.com/examples/sn.spahlinger_ephemere.pdf

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2004b, 2005a, Win 2000 or XP

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Dainis
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   Posted 2/16/2005 4:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks, Zuill, the PDF file does have some examples, and the best measure I see in that file is m. 191 on p. 7. See how for instrument I, the stems start off close together, and then they gradually get further and further apart? That's spatial notation. Time stays consistent for a measure or so (let's say half an inch = 1 sec, or something like that), and notes appear horizontally when you want them to...a good way to make accelerandi, or decelerandi (as in m. 191 of our example).

Just to be clear, I am not looking to "just guess" here and use the "move notes" tool. I have EPS files of graphics I'd like to use, and the "big decision" for my current piece is whether I should try to use Finale at all, or if I should painstakingly create my score in Illustrator.

Any suggestions? Also, has anyone produced a professional "spatial notation" score using Finale?

Glad to read your responses, thanks again!

Sincerely,
Dainis
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Dainis
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   Posted 2/16/2005 4:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just a quick correction, instead of "notes appear horizontally," it might be more clear to have "notes appear on the horizontal plane" ...

--D
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Scott Amort
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   Posted 2/21/2005 7:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Dainis,

I have a fair bit of experience with this, and by itself, Finale is not the answer. My work process involves creating eps files in Finale (but not with Finale - printing to Acrobat PDF and then saving as EPS from Acrobat, thanks to the inability of EPS export to work properly!); and then assembling and editing these files in Adobe Illustrator. It gives you pixel-perfect control over the output, and an extensive pallette of vector graphic controls. Illustrator has a learning curve, and the first few scores I approached this way took a lot of time, but I have become reasonably proficient at the process now. Good luck!

Best,
Scott
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Dainis
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   Posted 2/22/2005 11:02 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey Scott,

That's basically the procedure I've set out to follow. Do you "guestimate" the progressions, or do you use a tool to create the accelerandi/decelerandi for you? I'm planning on using a plotting tool called "Yorick," which uses its own scripting language.

Looking forward to reading more!

Prosit!
Dainis
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Scott Amort
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   Posted 2/23/2005 11:52 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Dainis,

I mostly 'eyeball' it. I had a look at the Yorick tool you mentioned. Seems to be a wee bit of overkill. That sort of mathematical precision certainly won't translate into performance, but if you can adapt it to make the creation of the graphics a faster process it could be helpful. Good luck!

Best,
Scott
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Eagle1
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   Posted 2/24/2005 8:23 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There's a "move notes" tool?    In  Finale  only?   
 
In  PrintMusic,  sometimes the first note of a measure is too close to the bar line, especially  if  it  has an accidental in front of it.   But  there's  no  way to move it, correct? 
 
Maybe this is one of the suggestions we could make for future versions? 
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Benjamin Tubb
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   Posted 2/25/2005 3:55 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In Finale, each measure has a note-beat alignment handle (i.e. box) second bottom handle (the first handle is for adjusting measure widths) for adjustment: and notes can be dragged with the Speedy Edit Too. However, the effectiveness of this is determined my your Document Setings options for Music Spacing (whether changes are incorporated or not), as well as whether "Edit/Automatic Music Spacing" is enabled. As to the spacing before and after notes, as well as at the start and end of a measure, those are Document Options for Music Spacing.


Benjamin Tubb, Finale Engraver
WinF2K5b with Windows XP Pro
Webmaster of Public Domain Music (www.pdmusic.org)
Editor and Compiler of
"Henry Clay Work: Complete Songs and Choruses"
(Kallisti Music Press, 2002)

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Eagle1
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   Posted 2/25/2005 2:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks much for this info about a difference between PrintMusic and Finale because users seem to have many of the same problems.  I plan to wait until nobody's having any problems with Finale to move up, now have something to look forward to.
 
I bet they've made it also easier to put in stacatto's, maybe a mass stacatto click where you could do 64 or more 16th notes stacatto.   It's so amazing what computers can do if we perfect our programming.   Really appreciate  your reply.  
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Fritz Meissner
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   Posted 2/25/2005 3:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In PrintMusic you can apply articulations such as stacatto to all the notes in a region at once. Click on the articulation tool, drag-select the region and select the articulation you want from the selection box. Can do the same with Mass edit by uning the Apply Articulation item on the Mass Edit menu.

You can also drag notes around in speedy entry mode; you can't set a global spacing as in Finale, but if it's a few notes with accidentals that you want to adjust, then it can be done.

Fritz


PrintMusic 2004, Windows XP Pro, Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZX, P4 2.6 GHz + 1 GB

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Eagle1
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   Posted 2/26/2005 4:37 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oh thanks!   I'm so glad there's this forum!   You've made my day.
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Fritz Meissner
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   Posted 2/26/2005 5:37 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's a pleasure. PrintMusic has far more capabilities than many people seem to realize, and can do almost anything that you require for "routine" music . It's worthwhile going back to the manuals and tutorials regularly because one tends to forget things, or not notice them until one needs them.

Fritz


PrintMusic 2004, Windows XP Pro, Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZX, P4 2.6 GHz + 1 GB

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Eagle1
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   Posted 2/26/2005 4:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yeah, I still didn't get the mass staccato project to work for me, but that's okay, I'm enjoying this so much I can work a little harder until I move up.   I may not have done it right, will try again.  
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Dainis
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   Posted 2/27/2005 12:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Finale folks,

So, folks are basically eyeballing spatial notation in Finale, if they are using it at all? Would that be a fair generalization?

Mass staccato for PrintMusic might be better in its own thread. In Finale, as Fritz Meissner mentions, you just select all of the measures, or partial measures using the Mass Edit tool (Edit|Select Partial Measures), and then choose Mass Edit|Apply Articulation.

No other takers on the spatial notation discussion?

Cheers!
Dainis
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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 3/3/2005 7:33 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dainis said...
So, folks are basically eyeballing spatial notation in Finale, if they are using it at all? Would that be a fair generalization?


Finale users are using spatial notation, if that's your question.

Dainis said...
Mass staccato for PrintMusic might be better in its own thread. In Finale, as Fritz Meissner mentions, you just select all of the measures, or partial measures using the Mass Edit tool (Edit|Select Partial Measures), and then choose Mass Edit|Apply Articulation.


An approach only if you want to waste time.

Dainis said...
No other takers on the spatial notation discussion?


In a way, Benjamin has already suggested one method to accomplish it. Turn OFF AMS, respace and then adjust the beat charts. Use the ruler to visually place the beat charts elements where you want them. If you need numerical precision, double-click on the top beach chart handles to adjust the beat chart handle numerically. Don't respace after that.


Jari Williamsson

Windows XP, Pentium 4
2.40 GHz, 1 GB RAM

Forza! and Forza! Lite plug-in collections for Finale:
http://www.jwmusic.nu/forza/ (main site)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forza-talk/ (discussions/announcements/beta versions)

The Finale Productivity Tips site:
http://www.finaletips.nu/

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Eagle1
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   Posted 3/3/2005 4:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I went to the link and learned I'd never understand "spacial notation".  That was enough for me.   I'm just learning PrintMusic.   Gotta look into layering  next.   No need to even reply to this but if anyone's in the mood to, where the heck did you hear about this spacial notation anyway and when and why did it start?   Thanks for letting me butt in. 
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