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doublebass007
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   Posted 11/25/2005 1:07 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi, I recently purchased finale 2006. I just have a quick questions about trills. Whenever you do trills normally you can define the note to trill to one step above, a semitone above, or diatonically, right? So how do you get it to trill one note below diatonically, or any of those ways for that matter? Thanks for any help!
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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 11/25/2005 1:38 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm not sure whether you mean layout or playback?

Traditionally, a trill is defined as a rapid alternation between a chord tone and the non-chord tone a step above.

The written pitch is the chord tone, and the "trill to" tone can be indicated by an accidental above the trill symbol, or by a small "trill to" note.

A rapid alternation between a chord tone and the non-chord tone a step below would rather be called a tremolo, and be notated as a tremolo.

Peter
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Thomas Hansen
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   Posted 11/25/2005 11:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think I get what you're taking about; what you want is tr#, trb and tr to playback differently, isn't it? Well, just create them as articulations, using the Engraver Font Extras font (it has the correct symbols for the three kinds of trill) and use them as needed. Finale Human Playback understands and play them correctly - well, at least it tries :). There is a bug when you have key signatures: if both the note and the upper trill note are flat, the trb will play as a normal trill, and the tr# will be a 1 1/2 tone trill...


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doublebass007
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   Posted 11/25/2005 2:17 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
oh...maybe this is a deficiency in my music theory training. Here, I'll tell you exactly what I'm looking for, that should help, haha. I'm in the key of Eb major, and I want my trill to start on a C and alternate down to a Bb. Is this what trb does? I'd think that trb would go from a C to a B, but I'm not sure. Anyways, does that make things a little more clear? I apologize for my lack of knowledge here. Also, how exactly would you go about getting a trb and tr# in your piece? I know you explained it, but I'm still not fully used to finale, I just got it recently. Anyways, the help is appreciated!


And also, that's not a tremolo. A tremolo is more a rapid attack on a single note. You do not alternate notes in tremolos. At least I've never heard of an alternating tremolo.

Post Edited (doublebass007) : 11/25/2005 1:30:54 PM (GMT-6)

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Zuill
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   Posted 11/25/2005 2:37 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
trb would go from a C to a Db. Trills, in the traditionl sense go to the upper note. What you will want is to have a Bb with the trill sign. For tr to #, b, or natural, in Smart Shape Tool, ctrl-click on the Custom Line Tool and choose the tr symbol from the list. Now apply that to the score. HP should recognize it. But remember, traditional trills are to the note above. The mordent goes to the note below. Tremolos can go in either diection.


Zuill


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Post Edited (Zuill) : 11/25/2005 1:44:00 PM (GMT-6)

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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 11/25/2005 4:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
doublebass007 said...
oh...maybe this is a deficiency in my music theory training. Here, I'll tell you exactly what I'm looking for, that should help, haha. I'm in the key of Eb major, and I want my trill to start on a C and alternate down to a Bb. Is this what trb does?...


OK, so the chord is Eb major triad.
Then the Bb is the chord tone (it's the fifth in the Eb major triad), and the C is the non-chord tone.
What you want, is a Bb with a trill beginning on the "trill to" tone.
See the attached file.

The symbol trb means that the "trill to" tone (= the upper tone, the non-chord tone) should be flatted.
Examples:
A trb on C is a trill with C and Db, where C is the chord tone (the chord could e. g. be Ab major triad).
A trb on Bb is a trill with Bb and Cb, where Bb is the chord tone (the chord could e. g. be Eb minor triad).


doublebass007 said...
...I'd think that trb would go from a C to a B, but I'm not sure. Anyways, does that make things a little more clear? I apologize for my lack of knowledge here. Also, how exactly would you go about getting a trb and tr# in your piece? I know you explained it, but I'm still not fully used to finale, I just got it recently. Anyways, the help is appreciated!...


You can find both trb and tr# as shape articulations in the default file.
And also [tr with a natural].
It's difficult to see in the dialog box Articulation Selection, because they display so tiny in the dialog box.
But select one of them, and click the [Edit...] button.
Then you can see the symbol better.
And the symbols display fine in the score.


doublebass007 said...
...And also, that's not a tremolo. A tremolo is more a rapid attack on a single note. You do not alternate notes in tremolos. At least I've never heard of an alternating tremolo.


Tremolo only means that a "trembling" effect is wanted.

On string instruments you can do a tremolo with the bow by rapidly switching between downstroke and upstroke, thus repeating the tone rapidly.
The "tone repetition" is also a common tremolo technique on mandolin and similar instruments.

Another tremolo effect comes from rapidly switching between two tones.
That effect works very well on keyboard instruments.

Take a look in the Finale manual's index file (FinIX.pdf) under "tremolo", and you will find a discussion of the notational options.


Peter

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Ron.
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   Posted 11/25/2005 11:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Peter Thomsen said...

 

Another tremolo effect comes from rapidly switching between two tones.
That effect works very well on keyboard instruments.

Take a look in the Finale manual's index file (FinIX.pdf) under "tremolo", and you will find a discussion of the notational options.


Peter
It works very well on other instruments as well, especially on strings, where tremolos between two widely-spaced tones are possible. Woodwinds, and brass, can do the same, but the composer has to know the instrument's fingering to know what is possible.


Ron
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