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David Bolton
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   Posted 7/20/2006 11:14 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have several files (such as the one attatched) which has "R. Saillens." in the credits at the bottom of the page. I would like to replace it with "Robert Saillens, 1855-1942." Anyone know why search and replace isn't working for me? Is it just my computer have a bad day?

Here's what I'm typing into Finalescript:

search "R. Saillens." replace "Robert Saillens, 1855-1942." in text blocks



---
Finale 2006r3

Post Edited (David Bolton) : 7/21/2006 3:22:00 PM (GMT-5)



File Attachment :
God Be with You Till We Meet Again - French (CS 37).MUS   76KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 260 time(s).
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 7/20/2006 11:55 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I couldn't get it to work either. It seems not to like the period in the middle of the phrase. Must be another of those famous Finale "features." rolleyes


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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 7/20/2006 11:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BTW, I was trying it directly from the Edit menu, not with Finale script.


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David Bolton
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   Posted 7/21/2006 3:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've experimented with this bug a little more and managed to outline when it occurs.

When the first part of you're search text is repeated immediately preceeding its occurance in the document, Finale search will be unable to find it.

For a simple example, you seach for "ok", Finale won't find it in the word "look" because the first part of your search string ("o") is repeated in the document.

Since the search (by default) is not case sensitive this applies even in reverse. It doesn't matter if the repetition is a different case like my example in the first post: Finale can't find "R. Saillens" in the text "Tr. R. Saillens" because the string "r. " (or "R. ") is repeated.

You would think Finale could come up with a better search algorithm than that!

I've not filed bug reports before. How do you go about such things?


David Bolton

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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 7/21/2006 4:08 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The problem is that the forum software is not a Make Music product. They just use it. There is a simple, easy to fix programming error that I reported a couple of years ago. It was apparent that neither Make Music or the program vendor cared at all about doing something about it.


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David Bolton
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   Posted 7/21/2006 4:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The search algorithm I'm refering to is the one built into Finale, not the forum search.
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Dick Brodfuehrer
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   Posted 7/21/2006 4:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OOPS! blush

I had recently been fighting the forum search function and losing. I must have had that on my mind. Either that or it's just another one of those geezer gaps that afflict us geezers. :p


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Tyler
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   Posted 7/21/2006 5:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
David Bolton said...
I've experimented with this bug a little more and managed to outline when it occurs.

When the first part of you're search text is repeated immediately preceeding its occurance in the document, Finale search will be unable to find it.

For a simple example, you seach for "ok", Finale won't find it in the word "look" because the first part of your search string ("o") is repeated in the document.

Since the search (by default) is not case sensitive this applies even in reverse. It doesn't matter if the repetition is a different case like my example in the first post: Finale can't find "R. Saillens" in the text "Tr. R. Saillens" because the string "r. " (or "R. ") is repeated.

You would think Finale could come up with a better search algorithm than that!

I've not filed bug reports before. How do you go about such things?



Send the report to customer support. I think you'll find that you can work around this problem by adding a space before the word you're looking for and before the replacement text.


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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 7/21/2006 6:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
David Bolton said...
I've experimented with this bug a little more and managed to outline when it occurs.

When the first part of you're search text is repeated immediately preceeding its occurance in the document, Finale search will be unable to find it.

For a simple example, you seach for "ok", Finale won't find it in the word "look" because the first part of your search string ("o") is repeated in the document.

Since the search (by default) is not case sensitive this applies even in reverse. It doesn't matter if the repetition is a different case like my example in the first post: Finale can't find "R. Saillens" in the text "Tr. R. Saillens" because the string "r. " (or "R. ") is repeated.

You would think Finale could come up with a better search algorithm than that!

I've not filed bug reports before. How do you go about such things?


Ooh! That's a classic student programmer's pitfal! I remember the first time I wrote a search algorithm, years ago, as part of a Prolog compiler. I had to think long and hard about how to restart the search correctly after a partial match.

The guys at MM would do a lot worse than read D. E. Knuth's book, "Sorting and Searching", which is volume 3 of The Art of Computer Programming. Since this tome was published well over 25 years ago, there's really no excuse for tofay's professional programmers to get a basic search algortihm wrong!

Brian


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Tyler
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   Posted 7/21/2006 7:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...


The guys at MM would do a lot worse than read D. E. Knuth's book, "Sorting and Searching", which is volume 3 of The Art of Computer Programming. Since this tome was published well over 25 years ago, there's really no excuse for tofay's professional programmers to get a basic search algortihm wrong!



I don't think the MakeMusic programmers created it at all.


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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 7/22/2006 3:55 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tyler said...
Ebony Ivory said...


The guys at MM would do a lot worse than read D. E. Knuth's book, "Sorting and Searching", which is volume 3 of The Art of Computer Programming. Since this tome was published well over 25 years ago, there's really no excuse for tofay's professional programmers to get a basic search algortihm wrong!



I don't think the MakeMusic programmers created it at all.


In which case, whoever else created this part of Finale needs to read Knuth! :-)

And if MM's software is not written by MM, is it any wonder that some reported bugs go unfixed for years? eyes

Brian


On ebony and ivory I'll tinkle all day long

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Tyler
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   Posted 7/22/2006 4:19 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...


In which case, whoever else created this part of Finale needs to read Knuth! :-)

And if MM's software is not written by MM, is it any wonder that some reported bugs go unfixed for years? eyes



In this case it's a plug-in rather than something in the Finale code. If it gets reported, there's a good chance it will be fixed.


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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 7/22/2006 4:25 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tyler said...
In this case it's a plug-in rather than something in the Finale code. If it gets reported, there's a good chance it will be fixed.


Are none of the plug-ins written by Coda/MM? I freely admit to having removed the various "demo" and "lite" plugins, and have yet to miss them, but I've left the ones in which I believe(d) to be written by C/MM ...

Brian


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Tyler
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   Posted 7/22/2006 4:38 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...


Are none of the plug-ins written by Coda/MM? I freely admit to having removed the various "demo" and "lite" plugins, and have yet to miss them, but I've left the ones in which I believe(d) to be written by C/MM ...



I'm not sure if any of the plug-ins were written by MakeMusic. Certainly the majority were not, though most aren't lite versions. I don't think it would really make much sense for a MakeMusic employee to implement a feature as a plug-in. MakeMusic pays plug-in developers to create plug-ins for Finale and on occasion purchases ones that were made separately.


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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 7/22/2006 5:46 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tyler said...
Ebony Ivory said...


Are none of the plug-ins written by Coda/MM? I freely admit to having removed the various "demo" and "lite" plugins, and have yet to miss them, but I've left the ones in which I believe(d) to be written by C/MM ...



I'm not sure if any of the plug-ins were written by MakeMusic. Certainly the majority were not, though most aren't lite versions. I don't think it would really make much sense for a MakeMusic employee to implement a feature as a plug-in. MakeMusic pays plug-in developers to create plug-ins for Finale and on occasion purchases ones that were made separately.


That's curious! Of the 36 .FXT files I still have in my Finale 2005b, all bar one contain a "Coda Music" copyright message, three also contain a "MakeMusic" copyright notice, and one contains none at all:

Files Containing a "Coda Music" but not a "MakeMusic" Copyright Message
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

AUTODY32 FXT       204,800  28/01/05  20:05 AUTODY32.FXT
TMPMRK32 FXT        69,632  28/01/05  20:05 TMPMRK32.FXT
CLEARL~1 FXT        45,056  28/01/05  20:05 ClearLyricPos.fxt
LEXTRACT FXT       145,920  28/01/05  20:05 lextract.fxt
AUTOBR32 FXT        36,864  28/01/05  20:05 AUTOBR32.FXT
MEASNU32 FXT        32,768  28/01/05  20:05 MEASNU32.fxt
MEASNU~1 FXT        53,248  28/01/05  20:05 MeasNumPos.fxt
NUMRPT32 FXT        73,728  28/01/05  20:05 NUMRPT32.FXT
CHNGFNT  FXT        57,344  28/01/05  20:05 CHNGFNT.FXT
CNTITM32 FXT        73,728  28/01/05  20:05 CNTITM32.FXT
COMMAN~1 FXT        90,112  28/01/05  20:05 CommandLine.fxt
CEBEAMS  FXT        36,864  28/01/05  20:05 CEBeams.fxt
CHANGE~1 FXT        61,440  28/01/05  20:05 ChangeNoteheads.fxt
CHKDUR32 FXT       172,096  28/01/05  20:05 CHKDUR32.fxt
CTNACC32 FXT        98,304  28/01/05  20:05 CTNACC32.FXT
DEFAUL~1 FXT        61,440  28/01/05  20:05 DefaultRests.fxt
FLATBM   FXT        32,768  28/01/05  20:05 flatbm.fxt
HSLEDG32 FXT        36,864  28/01/05  20:05 HSLEDG32.FXT
MIDLIN~1 FXT        57,344  28/01/05  20:05 MidlineStemDirections.fxt
MOVERE~1 FXT        94,278  28/01/05  20:05 MoveRests.fxt
RHYTHS32 FXT        65,536  28/01/05  20:05 RHYTHS32.fxt
SINGLE~1 FXT        53,248  28/01/05  20:05 SinglePitch.fxt
VOICE2~1 FXT       147,531  28/01/05  20:05 Voice2ToLayer.fxt
CHKRNG32 FXT        86,016  28/01/05  20:05 CHKRNG32.FXT
CUENOTES FXT       139,340  28/01/05  20:05 CUENOTES.FXT
GSTFATT  FXT        98,362  28/01/05  20:05 GSTFATT.FXT
MOVESP~1 FXT        32,768  28/01/05  20:05 MoveSplitPoint.fxt
PAGETU~1 FXT       364,544  28/01/05  20:05 PageTurns.fxt
PARALL~1 FXT        61,440  28/01/05  20:05 ParallelMotion.fxt
PIANOR~1 FXT        77,824  28/01/05  20:05 PianoReduction.fxt
SERUTI32 FXT       139,331  28/01/05  20:05 SERUTI32.FXT
SMARTC~1 FXT       323,584  28/01/05  20:05 SmartCueNotes.fxt
        32 file(s)      3,124,122 bytes
         2 dir(s)   1,151,762,432 bytes free

Files Containing both a "Coda Music" and "MakeMusic" Copyright Message
----------------------------------------------------------------------

APPLYH~1 FXT       435,200  28/01/05  20:05 ApplyHumanPlayback.fxt
FINALE~1 FXT       543,744  28/01/05  20:05 Finalescript.fxt
TEXTSE~1 FXT       354,816  28/01/05  20:05 TextSearchReplace.fxt
         3 file(s)      1,333,760 bytes
         2 dir(s)   1,151,729,664 bytes free

Files Containing No Copyright Message Whatsoever
------------------------------------------------

FNDRANGE FXT        45,056  28/01/05  20:05 FNDRANGE.FXT
         1 file(s)         45,056 bytes
         2 dir(s)   1,151,696,896 bytes free


None of the plug-ins I removed (TG Lite, Dolet Lite, Patterson Lite, etc) had any mention of Coda, MakeMusic or suchlike in their files, and all contained "hot link" buttons to buy full versions, or visit websites to explain more. Apart from the demo/lite nature of these modules, their odd use of things like coloured button text and a general non-Finale-look-and-feel also put me off these third-party plug-ins.

So whether the above 36 files were or were not written in-house by Coda Music/MakeMusic, they nonetheless have more of an in-house feel about them. Perhaps they were written on commission, perhaps they were written by Coda/MM programmers in their spare time, or outside of the main development stream, but whatever the case, these 35 of these 36 are claimed by Coda Music!

Brian


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Tyler
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   Posted 7/22/2006 1:47 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...



None of the plug-ins I removed (TG Lite, Dolet Lite, Patterson Lite, etc) had any mention of Coda, MakeMusic or suchlike in their files, and all contained "hot link" buttons to buy full versions, or visit websites to explain more. Apart from the demo/lite nature of these modules, their odd use of things like coloured button text and a general non-Finale-look-and-feel also put me off these third-party plug-ins.

So whether the above 36 files were or were not written in-house by Coda Music/MakeMusic, they nonetheless have more of an in-house feel about them. Perhaps they were written on commission, perhaps they were written by Coda/MM programmers in their spare time, or outside of the main development stream, but whatever the case, these 35 of these 36 are claimed by Coda Music!

Brian


I would guess this just indicates that MakeMusic purchased the plug-ins entirely, including the rights to the code. I can identify the developers behind some of these plug-ins.


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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 7/22/2006 2:23 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tyler said...
I would guess this just indicates that MakeMusic purchased the plug-ins entirely, including the rights to the code. I can identify the developers behind some of these plug-ins.


We're rather getting into fine semantics here. Microsoft didn't write most of MS-DOS, Windows, et al, if you take that line! They just bought up companies and/or their IPRs and developers, and brought the stuff on board. Ditto Adobe, Corel and many other successful "innovation" companies.

From my view, if Coda paid for, brought in, maintained and owned the code, and MM bought/renamed itself from Coda, then this stuff is MM code. Who the original programmer Joe Bloggs (or John Doe, his American cousin) worked for at the time is totally irrelevant.

It is unquestionable that there is a qualitative difference between (say) the "Cautionary Accidentals" plug-in, which says, "Copyright (c) Coda Music Tech...", and gradually improves alongside Finale, and "TG-Beams Lite" or "Patterson Dolet Demo", which (alongside their collection of helpful functions) are predominantly there to advertise third-party commercial products.

Some plug-ins look, feel, smell and taste like Finale, and others don't. And spookily enough, most of the ones that do contain Coda Music copyright messages, and most of the ones that don't, er, don't.

If it comes with Finale, looks, feels, smells and tastes like Finale, and is claimed to have been written by the guys who wrote Finale, and is sold by and maintained by the guys who wrote Finale, and cannot be bought from a third party source who didn't write Finale, then for my money, it is a part of Finale!

Brian


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Fritz Meissner
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   Posted 7/22/2006 2:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dick Brodfuehrer said...
I had recently been fighting the forum search function and losing.


You've probably heard this before, but it's worth repeating : use Google's advanced search. Tell it to return results only from domain "forum.makemusic.com" and then give it your search terms. It seems to work much more reliably than the forum's own search engine.

Fritz


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Tyler
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   Posted 7/22/2006 3:28 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...


From my view, if Coda paid for, brought in, maintained and owned the code, and MM bought/renamed itself from Coda, then this stuff is MM code. Who the original programmer Joe Bloggs (or John Doe, his American cousin) worked for at the time is totally irrelevant.


No, it's not irrelevant, because as it usually works out in Finale, Joe Bloggs or some other plug-in developer outside of MakeMusic would have maintained the code as well.

Ebony Ivory said...

It is unquestionable that there is a qualitative difference between (say) the "Cautionary Accidentals" plug-in, which says, "Copyright (c) Coda Music Tech...", and gradually improves alongside Finale, and "TG-Beams Lite" or "Patterson Dolet Demo", which (alongside their collection of helpful functions) are predominantly there to advertise third-party commercial products.


I know that Tobias for example has maintained many plug-ins that don't have his name on them. Updates to at least many (if not most or all) of the plug-ins have not been made by Finale programmers. And for the included TGTools plug-ins, Patterson plug-ins, Dolet, etc., MakeMusic pays these programmers to update their software to work with the latest versions of Finale. As far as who-develops-what, it's usually the same for plug-ins with the Coda copyright as for the others. In fact, I would say that in general the plug-ins like TGTools and Patterson Beams are BETTER in this regard, because they benefit from updates these authors make on their own, while the other plug-ins usually just get updated to work as they did before.

These "Lite" plug-ins are not included predominantly to advertise third-party commercial products. Plug-in developers don't make much money from that. They make their money from the sale of their plug-in to MakeMusic. And as such, MakeMusic gets the bulk of the critical functionality from them. If you asked people here to name the most useful plug-ins included with Finale, I'm willing to bet most of them would be among these plug-ins. These are by in large the very best plug-ins in the program.


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Mark Wibrow
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   Posted 7/22/2006 4:02 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fritz Meissner said...
You've probably heard this before, but it's worth repeating : use Google's advanced search. Tell it to return results only from domain "forum.makemusic.com" and then give it your search terms. It seems to work much more reliably than the forum's own search engine.


Indeed. I gave up on the forum search sometime ago. As I use Firefox, I adapted the google search plug in so I can search the forum from the navigation bar.

On the off chance anyone is interested, I have attached two files necessary. They need to be copied to the 'searchplugins' folder, either in the Firefox install folder or in the Firefox user Profiles folder.

Unfortunately I can't post them separately as one of them is a .png which the forum attachment 'feature' doesn't like, and I can't post them as a .zip file (why?) as the forum attachment feature doesn't like that either, so it's .tar.bz2
Something like 7zip or IZArc (which are free) will unpack it.


Mark Wibrow
Finale 2005b.r1. Windows XP Pro all updates.

Post Edited (Mark Wibrow) : 7/22/2006 4:05:40 PM (GMT-5)



File Attachment :
MMForumSearch_Firefox.tar.bz2   1KB (application/octet-stream)
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Ebony Ivory
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   Posted 7/22/2006 5:23 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tyler, first you say:

Tyler said...
I would guess this just indicates that MakeMusic purchased the plug-ins entirely, including the rights to the code. I can identify the developers behind some of these plug-ins.

and then:
Tyler said...
MakeMusic pays these programmers to update their software to work with the latest versions of Finale.

As I said in the previous post, it's a matter of semantics ...

... First MM buys the code, then MM pays the coders to maintain it. I rest my case!

More to the point, whoever he/she/they is/are who maintain Finalescript should read up on string searching :-)

Brian


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Tyler
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   Posted 7/22/2006 7:00 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...

As I said in the previous post, it's a matter of semantics ...



Yes, it is a matter of symantics. Your original point was that the programmers at MakeMusic made a beginner's mistake. I think it's only fair to point out that this wasn't a mistake on the part of the Finale programmers.

My facts are valid. I rest my case.


I ALSO think it's valid to point out that a mistake like this isn't reason to publicly suggest someone needs to go back and study. People make mistakes, even when they have the knowledge to prevent them.


Windows XP, all updates



Real Time Finale Discussion - FinaleIRC.Com

Post Edited (Tyler) : 7/22/2006 7:32:24 PM (GMT-5)

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 4594
 
   Posted 7/23/2006 4:14 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tyler said...
I ALSO think it's valid to point out that a mistake like this isn't reason to publicly suggest someone needs to go back and study. People make mistakes, even when they have the knowledge to prevent them.


You are misinterpreting my suggestion. As Ron B might say, "I'm a programmer of xxxx year's experience", etc., but I am also perfectly willing to admit that I read Knuth from time to time, especially when I am delving into the more intricate areas of sorting, searching, pseudo random number generation and the like. His books are a source of inspiration and insight, and are not simple college-level study books.

I would seriously suggest that anyone writing this sort of code read up on good (and working) ways to do it, rather than jumble something together from scratch. Although Knuth's work dates from the '70s, the algorithms and analysis are timeless. The mistakes, the solutions, the improvements, the theory, has all been done before.

So why reinvent the wheel when it's already there? Especially one with a hexagonal tyre? :-)

Brian


On ebony and ivory I'll tinkle all day long

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