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PatrickSeanOneil
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 2

Posted 4/29/2007 3:29 AM (GMT -5)

Hello everyone. I'll try to explain my situation as best I can.

I recently completed my first attempt at a symphonic orchestral piece. It was created in Cakewalk SONAR 5 PE using EWQL Orchestra samples, and programmed/drawn entirely using the piano roll view and my mouse.

The way it is now, there are about 200+ MIDI tracks, because I will often break it down by section or verse and record each instrument or group of instruments on their own MIDI track... after which I bounce each one to an audio track for mixing, etc.

So I may have several tracks of Piano, 18 Violins, 11 Violins, 10 Cellos, 9 double bass... every kind of string, brass, woodwind, and percussion you can imagine... whatever I need as I go, I will just pick from the sample set and draw the notes by ear. Of course I also adjust timing, velocity, duration, etc.

So what I end up with are tracks all over the place. Now, I assume that I will need to go back and combine all of the elements into single MIDI tracks per instrument set (ie. 6 French Horns get their own track, as does solo French Horn, Alto Flute, Trombones, etc.)

One problem I anticipate running into is the various articulations that EWQL allows, (which I used often) such as trills, swells, noise, etc. How will those articulations translate to notation if the MIDI data does not know anything other than the base note?

Also, when it comes to percussion, often times a snare hit will be in a different place on the MIDI map from one sample set to the next... same goes for bass drums, cymbal crashes, etc. So how does the notation software know ahead of time what is a roll, crescendo roll, a single strike, etc.? Are they somehow pre-mapped? Or rather, is there a MIDI conversion map for EWQL Orchestra floating around out there?

My situation is a bit unique (this is probably obvious) as I know nothing about reading or writing musical notation. I do everything by ear and know nothing about classical musical theory. I just got into the symphonic thing recently and plan on continuing down that path for now, but I understand that in the industry one usually needs to know how to get their music onto sheet form for the orchestra, correct?

I guess first thing is first... how do I even export my MIDI data from SONAR into Finale once I have them streamlined down to individual tracks per instrument or section? I see no option in Sonar to do so, unless it is exported as some other file type or I just missed it completely.

If you like, please have a listen and see what I am dealing with. I have no plans to construct music in Finale as the way I work relies heavily on the mixture of tones I am given because it’s all done by ear. I just want to output accurate sheet music for an orchestra should the need ever arise.

Thank you in advance for any assistance! The link to my audio file is below.. I'll also link a smaller 160kbps in case it's needed.

-PSO

Orchestra project one, 320kbps MP3, ~18.5 MEG: http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=5242305&ref=2

-And one at 160kbps MP3, ~9.2 MEG: http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=5242333&ref=2

Post Edited (PatrickSeanOneil) : 4/29/2007 2:33:39 AM (GMT-5)

Jim Coull
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 1999
Total Posts : 2723

Posted 4/29/2007 8:24 AM (GMT -5)

"how do I even export my MIDI data from SONAR into Finale"

Finale will import standard MIDI files from any source, so there should be no problem getting the MIDI data into Finale once you have completed your work in SONAR.

"I understand that in the industry one usually needs to know how to get their music onto sheet form for the orchestra, correct?"

As far as getting your music onto paper, you may want to hire someone who can read & write music and understands the concepts orchestration and engraving or look into learning about this stuff yourself. Finale will not create any of the visual signs for the dynamics, tempo changes, articulations, trills, crescendi, etc., although all of those will come through in the MIDI file.

There are other factors to consider in addition to just getting the notes, articulations, etc. onto paper. Probably the most important is can real musicians with an instrument in hand (or mouth) play the notes that you wrote with your software. I listened to your piece with a fairly uncritical ear, so I could be wrong, but it sounds as though you may have written some parts that although they sound great on a synth, may be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to play on the real instruments.

I am not as familiar with the market as others on this forum, but as I understand it, there are markets for both computer generated music (no need for a printed page) as well as the traditional compositions, so unless your are intent on having an orchestra play your stuff, you may not need to get your MIDI compositions transferred to paper.

Good luck

Jim Coull

PatrickSeanOneil
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 2

Posted 4/29/2007 8:33 PM (GMT -5)

Thank you, Jim... You are correct, there are some parts which would require extremely talented musicians to recreate, and it would also require two pianos to play all of the notes in certain spots. Your post was an eye opener. Perhaps I should just focus on making music and if the need ever arises for an actual orchestration, then I could seek the aid of a transcriber to help flesh out the music on paper.

You have my sincere thanks for taking the time to listen and share your advice with me.

-PSO

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