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Mr. Smith
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   Posted 9/3/2007 3:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

          

  ...I'll take the initiative on this one and start the thread that several people have already started to discuss...

 

 It seems that at least everyone at one time or another on the forum has complained about Finale's once a year update schedule. Whether it's because you don't feel previous bugs have been fixed, or you dislike shelling out $99 a year for a program that just has more "bells and whistles," the time has really come to motivate a large mass of Finale's users to boycott Finale 2009.

 

 You may be asking, can this in fact be done? The answer is - yes, but everyone who has ever been dissatisfied with this policy must get on board. Spread the word and get as organized as possible.

 

 With formal letters to MM and ultimately low sales of Finale 2009 because of the boycott, it's very possible to express our organized expression of dissatisfaction. There are those of you who have been on this forum longer than I. I hope you will help take the initiative on this.

 

 If you're tired of the same bugs, of just extra bells and whistles, poor feedback from MM, and so on......now is the time to start motivating Finale costumers. Let’s force MM to respond directly and honestly to our questions and concerns. Let’s use this forum to start something that will change the program many of us use on a daily basis.

 

 We can do this. Will you help?

 

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Jetcopy
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   Posted 9/3/2007 4:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No.

We all have different needs and uses for Finale. For me, 2007 is the best version ever. I enjoy using it and have complete confidence when I do use it. As far as 2008, I've used it on some small projects so far with no problems. I just received Garritan's Concert/Marching Band library and am extremely pleased with it's integration with Finale 2008. Kudos to Robert P. for having built into 2008 all of the keyswitches to make this work seemlessly. I don't consider that bells and whistles. I think it's great that Robert was able to get in the Concert/Marching Band programming into 2008, so Finale users wouldn't have to wait until 2009 for it. But there are some bugs with 2008 that MM is aware of. I'm sure they're working on them now and will have a maintenance update at some point in the future.

Others may have different experiences with these versions, fine. But don't assume that everyone is as dissatisfied as you seem to be. This forum is filled with users on both sides of the fence. If MM has determined that it needs yearly updates to survive, I don't see a problem with that. No one is forced to buy an update. Each update comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. What more do you want?

JT


G4 Powerbook, OSX 10.4.8, 1.67 GHz, 1.5 GB ram

Post Edited (Jetcopy) : 9/3/2007 3:20:40 PM (GMT-5)

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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 9/3/2007 4:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have a habit of only buying only the even numbered updates, so I don't plan on purchasing 2009 in any case.

2008 is trouble-free for me so far (2-8 hours a day, almost every day). I was nearly lynched in the forum for saying the same thing about 2006, but I can report only my experience.


Ron, composer
www.RonaldJBrown.com

Finale 2008, full GPO & JABB
Win XP/Pro, 2.7 GHz processor, 2 Gb RAM

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ThierryAngers
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   Posted 9/3/2007 4:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am new to Finale (2008) and what surprises me is the large number of issues (bugs) with it. I have Sonar 4 and I frequently go on its forum, and there is very little bugs. The only issue was Sonar 3, and no update was possible, they had to release 4 to fix 1 bug, but that's about it.

How come Finale is known for having so many bugs?


Thierry Angers
Finale 2008, Windows XP
Intel P4 2.6Mhz
1.5 Gig Ram

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 9/3/2007 4:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't feel that a boycott is going to help a small company, which is not particularly well off, to make a better product.

If there are bugs you want fixed, then report them to Make Music. Mention them here on the forum, and encourage others to report them.
The more reports, the more likely the bugs are to get fixed.

MakeMusic do watch these fora, particularly more recently.
They are not sitting around counting the money, scheming how to make the program as half-arsed as possible. It is in their interest to make the program as good as Sibelius possible.

Let's not start yet another post slagging off MakeMusic. If we want to make Finale a better product, then there are plenty of ways of doing that in a more constructive way.


Finale 2008, 2Ghz iMac, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 9/3/2007 5:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
sure, let's use MakeMusic's forums to organise a boycott of their products...
smooth going there, Einstein.

Why not simply organise a LOGICAL and EFFICIENT way of putting together the most urgent bug fixes?
Why not organize a campaign of "bug reports"?


Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2008
currently installed: version 3.7.1 (under Win 3.11), 2006c, 2007c, 2008
Full GPO, Jazz and Big Band
Win XP

Les Éditions du Dos Blanc

Michel R. Edward

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korneel.bernolet
out of inspiration



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   Posted 9/3/2007 5:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
'Boycotting' really is heavy language, I think. If people are malcontent with the most recent versions, the sell stats of 2009 will obviously be linked to that without even planning. A lot of people haven't upgraded the last two-three years (I'm stuck with 2006, which --mostly-- still works fine). And Sibelius (oh no, I said the S-word...) is marching on. MakeMusic will have made the picture so far, I guess, so I really hope for them they are planning a serious makeover of their strategy.

Personally, I am in favour of the product division line: make a full bug-free (oh, brave new world) notation program (without HP, but with normal descent playback) and make a studio version with all playback functions and possiblities. Or even a third or fourth product as well, if there should be need for them. But my priority number 1 & 2 (shared places) are: get rid of the bugs and please stop forcing me to spend money on playback functions I have never used and will never use.


Korneel Bernolet (Belgium)

Gabrieli Editions

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Mr. S
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   Posted 9/3/2007 5:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

 I have to agree. (Although it seems like all everyone does on this forum is spend a good deal of time complaining about bugs and how the "latest" version of Finale falls short.)

 I think MM needs some sort of a "wake up call" but perhaps boycotting 2009 might be a bit harsh.

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David Young : chambermusic
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   Posted 9/3/2007 7:23 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There is no question that MakeMusic has a list of bugs (those bugs prior to 2008, not necessarily including any new bugs that found there way into 2008) and they have a nice list of new feature requests, and they have been told time and time again that fixing the bugs is more important than new features. They know this because we spent a lot of time coming up with the lists and discussing them and they have it printed in triplicate and acknowldged.

I think that is would be worth your while, if you convey to MakeMusic that in prioritizing these bug fixes that it will help sell more Finale in the long run and that us, as users of the software will speak highly of the product once the bugs are all fixed. Now.... I appreciate those who already are using 2008 regularly and find it to be a very useful program and one that works well. Still, I would like to see everyone happy.

So write, by postal mail, to MakeMusic, putting emphasis on fixing those bugs and limiting the new features to a few really helpful ones. And perhaps most important, to start the beta cycle a bit earlier so that the final version of 2009 will not have any glaring problems.

David


David Young
 
Composer of classical-romantic style chamber and orchestral music.
 
Finale 2.4 through 2008
Laptop PC, windows XP home, 2.4 ghz, 516 Megs RAM
Desktop PC, windows XP home, Gigastudio 3.03, 2 Gigs RAM, 3 hard drives
 
Also... GPO, Gigastudio 3.0, Kontakt 2.2, KH solo strings, VSL horizon solo strings, JABB, PMI pianos, Sampletekk renaissance flutes, Marimba, percussion, Giovani, complete Kirk Hunter orchestral library, Kirk Hunter Diamond Library with very limited knowledge of how to use them.
 
Join us at www.composeforums.com for discussion of music composition,
arranging and orchestration!

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noldar12
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   Posted 9/4/2007 4:15 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I also don't think that boycotting is a bad idea.  Make Music is not a large company, and if everyone really did it, Make Music might not survive as a company which is of no benefit to anyone - not even Sibelius users, as Sibelius would no longer have incentive to improve their product, if they were the only game in town.
 
Here's hoping that Make Music changes and actually fixes more old bugs (and it seems like maybe some of them have been fixed in 2008).  As has already been suggested, better to continue to urge Make Music to fix things, and work with them, rather than doing things that in the end, would be at cross-purposes.
 
Jim
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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 9/4/2007 5:13 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree with Korneel Bernolet, that what would be really nice is a new product point, somewhere between full-blown Finale (with its GPO, Video, Audio, HP, ...) and PrintMusic (with its restrictions on notation). I would happily switch to, and continue to upgrade within, a "Finale Notation" product; I am less and less inclined to lumber my machines with the full "Finale DAW/DVW/Kitchen Sink" application, increasingly large amounts I simply will never use.

And thanks to a killer bug in 2006, and 2007's increased bloat and lack of support for legacy platforms, that means I'm stuck with 2005.

This is not a boycott (I've paid up to 2007), but simple consumer choice: MakeMusic is increasingly not making a product I want to buy.

Brian


On ebony and ivory I'll tinkle all day long

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ShowPan2512
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   Posted 9/4/2007 3:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MakeMusic and its notation software has been a great blessing in my life inspite of the bugs.  I view it as a gift from God Himself that the genius that was need to created such a program was born.  It is not perfect, but it is not a quill and partchment either.  The fact that I am able to immediately hear back what I have written is worth every penny I have spent and will spend.  Bless the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Miss Ida for the $99.  I'll start saving my $99 now.   Keep up the great MakeMusic.


Samantha Penigar
Finale 2007c, Garritan Personal Orchestra, Sonar Home Studio 6 XL
HP Media Center XP, 2.8gHz processor, 2GB Ram, 300GB Harddrive
Sennheiser HD 280 pro earphones.
 

The opinions in this reply are the express opinions of the writer.  They in no way reflect the overall opinions of other forum members.  You can take them or you can leave them, but you can not change them.  It is an inalienable right to express one's opinion.  I have just expressed mine.

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David Young : chambermusic
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   Posted 9/4/2007 4:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for your comments, Samantha. This is how I feel as well.

David


David Young
 
Composer of classical-romantic style chamber and orchestral music.
 
Finale 2.4 through 2008
Laptop PC, windows XP home, 2.4 ghz, 516 Megs RAM
Desktop PC, windows XP home, Gigastudio 3.03, 2 Gigs RAM, 3 hard drives
 
Also... GPO, Gigastudio 3.0, Kontakt 2.2, KH solo strings, VSL horizon solo strings, JABB, PMI pianos, Sampletekk renaissance flutes, Marimba, percussion, Giovani, complete Kirk Hunter orchestral library, Kirk Hunter Diamond Library with very limited knowledge of how to use them.
 
Join us at www.composeforums.com for discussion of music composition,
arranging and orchestration!

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Dan Powers
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   Posted 9/4/2007 5:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If Finale 2009 doesn't offer any new features that I think I might find useful, I'll probably skip it. But I have no intention in participating in an organized boycott.


Dan Powers
"It's easier to think outside the box if you know what's in the box." --Dave Grusin

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petey forrest
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   Posted 9/4/2007 8:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just Ron said...
I have a habit of only buying only the even numbered updates, so I don't plan on purchasing 2009 in any case.
I'm on the "Ron 2-year even update plan" as well!   hehe
 
Every year seems pointless these days.
 
petey
Finale2008
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noldar12
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   Posted 9/4/2007 9:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Samantha, even though I am currently stuck on 2005, in the end, I agree with your sentiments entirely.

Jim
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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 9/5/2007 5:10 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
petey forrest said...
Just Ron said...

I have a habit of only buying only the even numbered updates, so I don't plan on purchasing 2009 in any case.
I'm on the "Ron 2-year even update plan" as well! hehe


Every year seems pointless these days.

petey

Finale2008

I'm going to have to disagree violently here ...

... I prefer the "odd" releases (97, 2001, 2003, 2005)! lol

Brian


On ebony and ivory I'll tinkle all day long

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A.S.
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   Posted 9/5/2007 7:13 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ShowPan2512 said...
MakeMusic and its notation software has been a great blessing in my life inspite of the bugs. I view it as a gift from God Himself ...


Hmm, I recently composed a piano piece called "Dance with the Devil" in Finale. Maybe this is the reason I've been having all those crashes...


PowerMac G5 2 X 2.0 GHz Dualcore, 2.5 GB RAM, Mac OS 10.4.10, 2 X 21" TFT Samsung, Digidesign Mbox
MacBook 1.8 Ghz Intel Core Duo, 2 GB RAM
Finale 2007c, TGTools, iKey 2, ProTools 6.9.2 LE, Kontakt 2, Full GPO

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ionian
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   Posted 9/5/2007 7:16 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Who in God's name is Miss Ida??!


www.frankperri.com
Makemusic : Please fix the basic notation functions and PLEASE FIX FIRST ENDINGS!!!!!!!

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ShowPan2512
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   Posted 9/5/2007 9:41 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My mother.     lol blush lol
ionian said...
Who in God's name is Miss Ida??!


Samantha Penigar
Finale 2007c, Garritan Personal Orchestra, Sonar Home Studio 6 XL
HP Media Center XP, 2.8gHz processor, 2GB Ram, 300GB Harddrive
Sennheiser HD 280 pro earphones.
 

The opinions in this reply are the express opinions of the writer.  They in no way reflect the overall opinions of other forum members.  You can take them or you can leave them, but you can not change them.  It is an inalienable right to express one's opinion.  I have just expressed mine.

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Mr. Smith
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   Posted 9/5/2007 11:09 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, some of you agree - some of you don't. I hope, at the very least, MM will view this thread and see what people are thinking. Maybe they'll suprise us and move to a 2-year update policy.
 
 Here's to hoping...
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jzucker
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   Posted 9/5/2007 4:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
QcCowboy said...
sure, let's use MakeMusic's forums to organise a boycott of their products...
smooth going there, Einstein.

Why not simply organise a LOGICAL and EFFICIENT way of putting together the most urgent bug fixes?
Why not organize a campaign of "bug reports"?


I think folks have been doing this for several years. You still can't put a chord symbol over the default rest as far as I know...

By the way - I still love Finale though I'm currently using 2005. I'd like to upgrade. I wish they'd run another $99 special.


Check out my guitar technique book, Sheets of Sound for Guitar.
 
 

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tfishbein82
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   Posted 9/5/2007 5:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...
I'm going to have to disagree violently here ...

... I prefer the "odd" releases (97, 2001, 2003, 2005)! lol

Couldn't agree more. Even years are for losers.

Odd years!!!!!!!!
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Carla @ MakeMusic
MakeMusic



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   Posted 9/5/2007 5:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
We try to include a mixture of bug fixes and new features with each upgrade. Unfortunately, we do have limited time and resources (doesn't everybody?) so we have to prioritize *which* bugs to fix and *which* features to include. Feature requests, bug reports, and just plain feedback from customers are greatly appreciated. Because threads tend to scroll fast on this forum, monitoring every thread isn't practical - if you want to make sure your vote is counted, best to send it in a Case to MakeMusic Customer Support. David Young's itemized lists in paper form are invaluable to us. Kudos, David!

From a personal standpoint, I've seen more benefits - as a user not an MM employee - from the annual upgrades. I use an Intel Mac and I got a Universal Binary version of Finale far faster than the competition offered one. I also love the sound of the Garritan instruments and I've gotten improvements faster with that, too.

From a business standpoint, there's a lot of reasons why 2-year upgrades would stress a company MakeMusic's size. I'm not convinced it would get you the specific results you want either.

Mr. Smith, send us a letter - tell us why you think 2-year upgrades would be better. Even better, let us know which issues annoy you the most and be as specific as possible ("fix all the bugs" requires too much mind-reading). I can't promise your hopes will be answered, but they will be heard.

Thanks for caring, Forum folks!


-Carla

MakeMusic

These on-line forums are intended for the exchange of ideas among the users of MakeMusic products. If you'd like individual help from our technical support staff, please contact them directly at http://support.makemusic.com or call 952-937-9703.

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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 9/5/2007 6:52 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for your honest reply Carla.

I agree with Samantha. Finale was a life-changing event for me. It allows me to do what I used to only dream about: write music and have it play it back using reasonable facsimiles of instruments. There is no other way I'd ever get a piece for full symphonic orchestra performed, but that does not mean that I can't write or that what I write is not worth listening to. Ever since I bought F2002 I've been using Finale for a couple to several hours a day. It always does what I need it to, and each upgrade has been as smooth as silk.

I think I'll pass on beginning an odd versus even year war. I would upgrade every year but my income is limited.

Cheers to all!


Ron, composer
www.RonaldJBrown.com

Finale 2008, full GPO & JABB
Win XP/Pro, 2.7 GHz processor, 2 Gb RAM

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