Finale SmartMusic
  Home | Log In | Register | Search | Help
   
MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Mid-measure clef in Finale 2008  Forum Quick Jump
 
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Dissonance
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to DissonanceAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 642
 
   Posted 10/24/2007 8:09 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Among other changes in Finale 2008, they changed the way to input a mid-measure clef. I followed the instructions in the manual. The manual says that when you return to the score, there will be a handle on the clef so you can drag it to a new position. Unfortunately, no handles appear on my clefs. Has anybody else encountered this? Am I doing something wrong?
 
Thanks,
Paul
Back to Top

Dissonance
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to DissonanceAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 642
 
   Posted 10/24/2007 11:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I found a different page in the manual with conflicting information. Apparently, you need highlight the part of the measure that you want to change the clef before selecting the clef.
Back to Top

Mike Rosen
himself



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Mike Rosen's website.Send a Private Message to Mike RosenAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 10/24/2007 11:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Send that conflict in to Mark Johnson, the documentation guy at MM. He says that he wants to hear about the errors. Also, let him know how you feel about the new browser based help, as compared to the old PDF.


Mike Rosen
 
WebLackey for the Seattle SeaChordsmen
 
PrintMusic 2006 on the PC: Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
Nightingale on the Ol' Macintosh
 
Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996
 
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

Back to Top

Doug Blackmore
www.aviatorsmusic.com



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Doug Blackmore's website.Send a Private Message to Doug BlackmoreAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 2724
 
   Posted 10/24/2007 11:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike Rosen said...
Send that conflict in to Mark Johnson, the documentation guy at MM. He says that he wants to hear about the errors. Also, let him know how you feel about the new browser based help, as compared to the old PDF.
Do you mean to say they did away with the PDF documentation?  HTML sucks when you try to print it out, or when you try to search multiple pages.  Please say the PDF is still there if you look for it.


Doug Blackmore
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Finale 2006r3, Win 2K Pro

Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 10/25/2007 12:34 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I find the new way of inserting mid-measure clefs completely counter-intuitive. Any time I want to do something with clefs, I click the clef icon first. Now that's the wrong thing to do! I know MM wants us to rely more heavily on the new selection tool, but to select an area BEFORE clicking the clef tool seems so a**-backwards. Oh, I know it will become second nature after a few years, but in the meantime....and, yes I've encountered the no handle thing.


Ron, composer
www.RonaldJBrown.com

Finale 2008, full GPO & JABB
Win XP/Pro, 2.7 GHz processor, 2 Gb RAM

Back to Top

Motet
Isorhythmic



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MotetAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 10/25/2007 2:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Did they at least document the things to watch out for like this in one place?


(Finale 2005b on Windows XP)

Back to Top

Daz
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to DazAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723
 
   Posted 10/25/2007 2:34 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just Ron said...
I find the new way of inserting mid-measure clefs completely counter-intuitive. Any time I want to do something with clefs, I click the clef icon first. Now that's the wrong thing to do! I know MM wants us to rely more heavily on the new selection tool, but to select an area BEFORE clicking the clef tool seems so a**-backwards. Oh, I know it will become second nature after a few years, but in the meantime....and, yes I've encountered the no handle thing.


I'm not sure I understand. I have just gone and entered several mid measure clefs using the clef tool in a variety of methods.

1) Using simple entry, entered a bunch of notes
2) Selected the clef tool
3) selected the notes that I want in a different clef, pressed a metakey to change the clef. - Worked OK, new clef has a handle

1) Went to an empty measure
2) Selected the clef tool
3) drag-selected a region of the measure I wanted in a different clef
4) Pressed a metakey to change the clef Worked OK, new clef has a handle

1) Entered some more notes using simple entry
2) Selected the clef tool
3) Drag-selected a region starting in the middle of one measure and ending in the middle of another
4) Pressed a metakey, clef changed accordingly. Both resulting mid-measure clefs have handles

1) Entered more notes using simple entry
2) Using the clef tool, drag-selected a section of music spanning a couple of measures, ending in the middle of a measure
3) Double clicked in the highlighted section
4) Got the clef selection dialogue, selected my clef and clicked OK. Mid measure clefs got entered OK and have handles on both

1) Entered some music using simple entry
2) Selected a couple of notes in the middle of the measure using clef tool
3) Right click->Select Clef...
4) Entered the Select Clef dialogue, clicked OK and both mid measure clefs went in OK. Handles on Both

Just looking in the help under "Selecting Music", it says the following:
"Selecting regions of measures is required whenever you want to copy music from one place to another or apply changes to a region of music using one of Finale's many editing functions. Although the Selection Tool is the primary tool for selecting and editing music, regional copying and editing can be performed at any time as long as one of the following tools is selected:

Selection Tool
Staff Tool
Measure Tool
Key Signature Tool
Time Signature Tool
MIDI Tool
Clef Tool
Repeat Tool
Mirror Tool "

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP

Back to Top

Daz
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to DazAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723
 
   Posted 10/25/2007 2:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Doug Blackmore said...
Do you mean to say they did away with the PDF documentation? HTML sucks when you try to print it out, or when you try to search multiple pages. Please say the PDF is still there if you look for it.


They have done away with the PDF version for viewing on the computer.
A printable PDF is available from the KB over at support.

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP

Back to Top

Wlgold
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to WlgoldAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 1733
 
   Posted 10/25/2007 7:34 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Doug Blackmore said...
Mike Rosen said...

Please say the PDF is still there if you look for it.


The PDF is still there if you look for it. Those of us who rely on Time Warner Cable can download it for those days (or more) when we don't have an Internet connection. makemusic.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/makemusic.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=799


Finale 2008, XP Pro, 1GB, full GPO, JABB

Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 10/25/2007 3:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Daz said...
Just Ron said...
I find the new way of inserting mid-measure clefs completely counter-intuitive. Any time I want to do something with clefs, I click the clef icon first. Now that's the wrong thing to do! I know MM wants us to rely more heavily on the new selection tool, but to select an area BEFORE clicking the clef tool seems so a**-backwards. Oh, I know it will become second nature after a few years, but in the meantime....and, yes I've encountered the no handle thing.


I'm not sure I understand. I have just gone and entered several mid measure clefs using the clef tool in a variety of methods.

1) Using simple entry, entered a bunch of notes
2) Selected the clef tool
3) selected the notes that I want in a different clef, pressed a metakey to change the clef. - Worked OK, new clef has a handle

1) Went to an empty measure
2) Selected the clef tool
3) drag-selected a region of the measure I wanted in a different clef
4) Pressed a metakey to change the clef Worked OK, new clef has a handle

1) Entered some more notes using simple entry
2) Selected the clef tool
3) Drag-selected a region starting in the middle of one measure and ending in the middle of another
4) Pressed a metakey, clef changed accordingly. Both resulting mid-measure clefs have handles

1) Entered more notes using simple entry
2) Using the clef tool, drag-selected a section of music spanning a couple of measures, ending in the middle of a measure
3) Double clicked in the highlighted section
4) Got the clef selection dialogue, selected my clef and clicked OK. Mid measure clefs got entered OK and have handles on both

1) Entered some music using simple entry
2) Selected a couple of notes in the middle of the measure using clef tool
3) Right click->Select Clef...
4) Entered the Select Clef dialogue, clicked OK and both mid measure clefs went in OK. Handles on Both

Just looking in the help under "Selecting Music", it says the following:
"Selecting regions of measures is required whenever you want to copy music from one place to another or apply changes to a region of music using one of Finale's many editing functions. Although the Selection Tool is the primary tool for selecting and editing music, regional copying and editing can be performed at any time as long as one of the following tools is selected:

Selection Tool
Staff Tool
Measure Tool
Key Signature Tool
Time Signature Tool
MIDI Tool
Clef Tool
Repeat Tool
Mirror Tool "

Cheers...



Maybe I have a blind spot in my memory or something, but every time I want to enter a mid-measure clef I wind up clicking around, unable to find it, until I stumble across the way to do it by accident. Just me, I guess. Another old fool who has trouble with new tricks. blush


Ron, composer
www.RonaldJBrown.com

Finale 2008, full GPO & JABB
Win XP/Pro, 2.7 GHz processor, 2 Gb RAM

Back to Top

Peter Lindström
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Peter LindströmAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 29
 
   Posted 10/26/2007 10:13 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi, I have the same problem with mid-measure clefs in Finale 2008 for both Windows and Mac. Here is my resoning:
I've tried everything that for example Daz wrote should work and nothing is working unless the "Create a movable mid-measure clef" button is selected in the Change Clef Dialog Box. You can't get any handles on a clef if that button isn't selected. In 2007 and prior that not a problem but in 2008 that button doesn't exist. If I create a mid-measure clef in Finale 2007 I can change it and the handle is there when I open the file in 2008. Do my reasoning make sens or do have you other experience?
peli
Back to Top

Daz
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to DazAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723
 
   Posted 10/26/2007 10:32 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
pli said...
Hi, I have the same problem with mid-measure clefs in Finale 2008 for both Windows and Mac. Here is my resoning:
I've tried everything that for example Daz wrote should work and nothing is working unless the "Create a movable mid-measure clef" button is selected in the Change Clef Dialog Box. You can't get any handles on a clef if that button isn't selected. In 2007 and prior that not a problem but in 2008 that button doesn't exist. If I create a mid-measure clef in Finale 2007 I can change it and the handle is there when I open the file in 2008. Do my reasoning make sens or do have you other experience?
peli


Hi

Could you write down the steps you take? (step by step, including what tool you are using)
I have gone through the examples I outlined in my last post, and everything works as it should.
I cannot see the option to 'create a mid measure clef' in the change clef dialogue. The only thing that I see is "Place clef after barline" if I have selected a section from the start of a measure.

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP

Back to Top

Motet
Isorhythmic



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MotetAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 10/26/2007 2:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The issue, which Daz seems to have missed, is that in prior versions it wasn't necessary to select music before changing the clef: you clicked where you wanted it and then picked "movable." Now you apparently have to remember to select first.


(Finale 2005b on Windows XP)

Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 10/26/2007 2:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
motet said...
The issue, which Daz seems to have missed, is that in prior versions it wasn't necessary to select music before changing the clef: you clicked where you wanted it and then picked "movable." Now you apparently have to remember to select first.


That's exactly what my issue with mid-measure clefs is. I am used to selecting the tool first, then selecting the target I want it to apply to. This applies to any tool, not just the clef tool, and not just in Finale. I usually pick up the hammer before placing the nail where I want it to go.


Ron, composer
www.RonaldJBrown.com

Finale 2008, full GPO & JABB
Win XP/Pro, 2.7 GHz processor, 2 Gb RAM

Back to Top

Peter Lindström
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Peter LindströmAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 29
 
   Posted 10/26/2007 4:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm sorry Daz, you absolutely right. I'm now get the hang of it. I'll found the reason I couldn't get it to work and it's all about the RTFM issue (Read The xxxxing Manual). MM have made som major changes regarding the Partial Measure command (Edit menu) and the Create a Movable Mid-Measure Clef command (Change Clef dialog box), they have both been removed and Finale now acts "intelligent" and "know" when you want to create a mid-measure clef depending on your selection. This changes is explaned in What's New In Finale 2008 —> Finale 2008 Interface Changes —> Tools-specific changes. If you read the manual about mid-measure clef, you want get any enlihtened. You have to read the Whats new document.
First,
the way to select a part of, or a full measure is a little bit different and the
second,
when you select a part of a measure, and only then, the mid-measure clef is inserted automatically without any certain specifications.
I hope this explain the solution for this topic. I think I'm not alone in the RTFM issue.
peli
Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 10/26/2007 5:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
pli said...
I think I'm not alone in the RTFM issue.
peli


We used to say in the business that REAL programmers never RTFM. Perhaps the same applies to Finale users (like me)? smilewinkgrin


Ron, composer
www.RonaldJBrown.com

Finale 2008, full GPO & JABB
Win XP/Pro, 2.7 GHz processor, 2 Gb RAM

Back to Top

mikepilkington
Registered Member

Click to send mikepilkington email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to mikepilkingtonAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 165
 
   Posted 11/19/2007 8:39 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Finale 200. I have just hit the same problem over mid measure clefs, and I now realise I can't select partial measures either! As son as I click on a measure with the selection tool the whole measure is selected. What have I got wrong?

Michael
Back to Top

Daz
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to DazAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 1723
 
   Posted 11/19/2007 9:04 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
mikepilkington said...
Finale 200. I have just hit the same problem over mid measure clefs, and I now realise I can't select partial measures either! As son as I click on a measure with the selection tool the whole measure is selected. What have I got wrong?

Michael


Hi

I assume that you're talking about Finale2008.

Selection in Finale2008 is much like selectin in most other apps.
Use Click-Drag. Start by clicking outside of the staff (above or below) then drag from there.

Read the manual - the section on the selection tool.

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP

Back to Top

Michel R. E.
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Michel R. E.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 7430
 
   Posted 11/19/2007 1:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
mikepilkington said...
Finale 200.
Michael



ooo, that's a much older version of Finale... I don't think they had clefs, come to think of it, I think they only used the "sticks on logs" approach smilewinkgrin


Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2008
currently installed: version 3.7.1 (under Win 3.11), 2006c, 2007c, 2008
Full GPO, Jazz and Big Band
Win XP

Les Éditions du Dos Blanc

Michel R. Edward

Back to Top

Flint
silly bear



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to FlintAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 3151
 
   Posted 11/19/2007 1:09 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"No, Thag, you come in early again! You supposed to come in after log but before the tree branch."


Finale 2007c, Garritan Personal Orchestra 2nd ed. Full version
Windows Vista 32-bit, 4GB RAM, Soundblaster Audigy II zs

Piccolo • Flute • Alto Flute • Bass Flute • Oboe • English Horn • Eb, Bb, A, Alto, Bass, Contra-alto, Contrabass Clarinet
Basset Horn • Soprano, Alto, Tenor, Baritone Saxophone • Bassoon

"It is not the job of copyist/arranger/composer to not only make the music clear and readable, but to also make it impossible to play incorrectly." - paraphrased from Bill Duncan

Back to Top

Mike Rosen
himself



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Mike Rosen's website.Send a Private Message to Mike RosenAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 11/19/2007 4:18 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Thag sorry. Thought was contemporary notation, was dragonflies mating on score..."


Mike Rosen
 
WebLackey for the Seattle SeaChordsmen
 
PrintMusic 2006 on the PC: Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.
Nightingale on the Ol' Macintosh
 
Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996
 
"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

Back to Top

Gary Ewer
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Gary Ewer's website.Private Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 87
 
   Posted 12/7/2007 1:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
To attempt to do a mid-measure clef (to change from bass to treble clef), I selected the note where I wanted to clef change to begin, I chose the treble clef, I clicked "OK". What it gave me as a treble clef where I wanted it, but also placed a bass clef again at the beginning of the clef, then another bass clef at the end. Anyone know what I can do about this? (I've attached a graphic.)


Gary Ewer
Computer info: 1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo 1.5 GB RAM, using Finale 2007/8

www.easymusictheory.com
Learn the essential secrets of songwriting: www.secretsofsongwriting.com


Image Attachment :
Image Preview
clef.gif
  2KB (image/gif)
This image has been viewed 345 time(s).
Back to Top

Music Man
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Music ManAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 13
 
   Posted 7/14/2011 9:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Gary, I think I have solved your problem.  When you change clefs, there are a number of buttons, the default of which is marked "to next clef change".  You need to select the button that is marked ""to end of piece" and that should notate the clef change properly.

Music Man

Back to Top
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
   
Forum Information
Currently it is Friday, September 24, 2021 7:59 AM (GMT -5)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads