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kylemac
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   Posted 10/28/2007 11:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I upgraded from 05 to 08 recently.  Though I love 08 so far, when I try to Save Special, Save as audio file, it doesn't give me the choice for the mp3 compressed file like 05 did.  I found out that you can't use the compressed file while using GPO.  Is there a way around this?


kylemac
05b.r1 - XP
08 - XP
Desktop
 

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ShowPan2512
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   Posted 10/28/2007 11:04 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Two ways, 1. Use Windows Media Player.  2. Use a program like Sonar to create MP3.
kylemac said...
I upgraded from 05 to 08 recently.  Though I love 08 so far, when I try to Save Special, Save as audio file, it doesn't give me the choice for the mp3 compressed file like 05 did.  I found out that you can't use the compressed file while using GPO.  Is there a way around this?


Samantha Penigar
Finale 2007c, Garritan Personal Orchestra, Sonar Home Studio 6 XL
HP Media Center XP, 2.8gHz processor, 2GB Ram, 300GB Harddrive
Sennheiser HD 280 pro earphones.
 

The opinions in this reply are the express opinions of the writer.  They in no way reflect the overall opinions of other forum members.  You can take them or you can leave them, but you can not change them.  It is an inalienable right to express one's opinion.  I have just expressed mine.

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 10/29/2007 5:20 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What? Another missing/broken feature that requires 3rd party solutions? What on earth is MM thinking of?

Or has it just been reorganised to another part of the labarynthine menu system, where existing users are guaranteed not to be able to find it?

Brian


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Daz
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   Posted 10/29/2007 6:25 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...
What? Another missing/broken feature that requires 3rd party solutions? What on earth is MM thinking of?

Or has it just been reorganised to another part of the labarynthine menu system, where existing users are guaranteed not to be able to find it?

Brian


No Brian, not a broken feature.

If you're using Midi output, Finale will still save to MP3.
Finale will only export to WAV if you're using GPO. This has not changed since Finale2K6.


Cheers...


Daz. :o)

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Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP

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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 10/29/2007 7:50 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
...and further to Daz: there are many free .wav to .mp3 converters available. My preference is WinLAME. It is fast and has several quality/size options.

And before we go over all this ground again, Brian: nothing is broken. The only way MakeMusic and Native Instruments can be saved as audio is by recording their output.


Ron, composer
www.RonaldJBrown.com

Finale 2008, full GPO & JABB
Win XP/Pro, 2.7 GHz processor, 2 Gb RAM

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Davidmorehead
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   Posted 10/29/2007 9:12 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ShowPan2512 said...
Two ways, 1. Use Windows Media Player.  2. Use a program like Sonar to create MP3.
kylemac said...
I upgraded from 05 to 08 recently.  Though I love 08 so far, when I try to Save Special, Save as audio file, it doesn't give me the choice for the mp3 compressed file like 05 did.  I found out that you can't use the compressed file while using GPO.  Is there a way around this?

If you use Sonar, be prepared to pay for the extra fee they charge for the license to use their mp3 converter. You only get a trial version when you buy Sonar. It expires in a month or so. (I can't remember the exact time frame)

From what I have read on the Internet, there are many free mp3 converters out there so it someone may be able to give you a link to one of them.


David Morehead
Finale 2006 on a Sony Laptop
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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 10/29/2007 9:18 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron and Daz - I was commenting to the original post. As I don't have 2008, I could only go on what was being said. I was not aware that MP3 output was unavailable post-2005b (on GPO scores), and can only comment that it is available for playback on 2005b (BTW, Daz, this is on SoftSynth playback, and not MIDI!).

So let's all agree, nothing's "broken". But, dare I suggest, something is missing!

Oh, and BTW, Ron, I also use the excellent Lame (LAME.EXE) - for encoding ripped CD tracks for my car!

Brian


On ebony and ivory I'll tinkle all day long

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/29/2007 9:31 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Since the addition of GPO, one has always had to choose "save as WAV" for that particular choice. The SoftSynths can still be saved as MP3.
This is a limitation of NI and the way the Garritan instruments work, from my understanding of it.
Music rendered with GPO or any other NI VSTi needs to be rendered in real time, in other words, if your piece lasts 5 mintues, making the recording will take 5 minutes.

The WAV file will be of higher quality than an MP3.
You can then compress that WAV file to MP3 format with another programme.
My MP3 player actually does that conversion for me quite easily. (I use MusicMatch JukeBox... a free programme)

If you are curious as to "why" exactly it works this way, maybe the place to ask is the Garritan forums at Northern Instruments.
It would certainly be more efficient to go directly to MP3 rather than need a converter if MP3 were always the desired format.
In my case, I more often than not require WAV files, anyways.


Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2008
currently installed: version 3.7.1 (under Win 3.11), 2006c, 2007c, 2008
Full GPO, Jazz and Big Band
Win XP

Les Éditions du Dos Blanc

Michel R. Edward

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 10/29/2007 9:49 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
QC, it is perfectly possible to record MP3 in real time - the fact that the softsynth can do it in faster-than-real-time demonstrates this admirably.

Whatever the reasons (more likely to be license/copyright based, as technical), it nonetheless feels odd that a feature of Finale 2005 is apparently lost when the playback engine was replaced with GPO in 2006. Odd enough, certainly, to cause an existing Finale user (Kylemac) to start this thread.

Meanwhile, for those who want to create high-quality MP3 files from WAV files, or even convert MP3 to WAV, the best solution is LAME. It's a bit geeky, and pretends not to be an MP3 encoder/decoder (to sidestep copyright/patent issues), but is in fact the most advanced, flexible and high-quality MP3 solution available today. And it's FREE to download and use.

Brian


On ebony and ivory I'll tinkle all day long

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Flint
silly bear



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   Posted 10/29/2007 11:49 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I use CDex for .wav->.mp3 conversions. Free.
 
it nonetheless feels odd that a feature of Finale 2005 is apparently lost
Um, considering that the midi/softsynth is the generic playback method, how can you consider this a "lost feature"? You can create .mp3 files from midi/softsynth info directly from Finale, just like before. (AFAICT)
 
Just asking.


Finale 2007c, Garritan Personal Orchestra 2nd ed. Full version
Windows Vista 32-bit, 4GB RAM, Soundblaster Audigy II zs

Piccolo, Flute, Alto Flute, Bass Flute
Oboe, English Horn
Eb, Bb, A, Alto, Bass, Contra-alto, Contrabass Clarinet
Basset Horn
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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 10/29/2007 12:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Flint, it wasn't me that reported this apparent loss of behaviour, but Kylemac. I agree that nothing has actually disappeared in this particular department, but am commenting on, to make it crystal clear, an appearance of such a loss.

Consider: Finale 2003 had no save-as-audio, ie no WAV and no MP3; Finale 2005 did have save-as-audio, with the choice of WAV or MP3; Finale 2008 has save-as-audio, but if you use the default GPO playback, it only supports WAV.

So while the playback quality has improved over the years (MIDI only, built-in SoftSynth, GPO), save-as-audio has apparently from "none", via "WAV+MP3" to "WAV only".

Even if this is only the appearance, and a little digging under the hood (and bypassing the GPO in favour of legacy sound support) proves this to be such.

Brian


On ebony and ivory I'll tinkle all day long

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/29/2007 2:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kylemac,
GPO has never been "direct to MP3" in Finale.
It was actually stated in the help file dealing with using Finale and GPO when VST was first added for playback... was it with version 2006? Its been a while now, I'm not sure but I think so.

So, using SoftSynths (which had been around for a few versions prior), a recording could be made directly to MP3, or one could be made to WAV. For some reason, SoftSynth could be encoded as WAV without having to be done in real time. Search me. No idea why.

Using GPO, or other supported VSTs was always a "real time" recording to WAV format only.
I'm still trying to figure out why exactly.. it's a bit hard to get all the information. Is it because of an actual software issue? or is it more a question of "rights" and contracts? Who knows, but as soon as I DO know, I'll let you know as well. That way we can clear the air of any accusations... or actually MAKE accusations if they are warranted.


Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2008
currently installed: version 3.7.1 (under Win 3.11), 2006c, 2007c, 2008
Full GPO, Jazz and Big Band
Win XP

Les Éditions du Dos Blanc

Michel R. Edward

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 10/29/2007 2:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Q C, it is very funny seeing you repeat a lot of points I've already made, right here in this thread. And then I remembered: you have made me invisible in your preferences!

Maybe some kind soul will alert you to the repetitions! :-)

Brian


On ebony and ivory I'll tinkle all day long

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kylemac
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   Posted 10/29/2007 7:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for all the great suggestions folks. It does seem that NI is the culprit. Anybody know if Sibelius lets you save VST's such as GPO as mp3's? I'm going to try WinLAME as I've heard about it from others as well. I'm also going to learn to block people in my preferences. I wasn't aware you could do that. Sure will save time and scrolling.


kylemac
05b.r1 - XP
08 - XP
Desktop
 

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kylemac
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   Posted 10/29/2007 7:55 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just tried MusicMatch as QcCowboy suggested and it works great, fast and free!

THANX!


kylemac
05b.r1 - XP
08 - XP
Desktop
 

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 10/29/2007 9:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Actually, life is far quieter and more pleasant when certain people have you on their ignore lists, even if it means others sometimes get the same or similar information twice! lol

Brian


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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 10/29/2007 10:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...
Actually, life is far quieter and more pleasant when certain people have you on their ignore lists, even if it means others sometimes get the same or similar information twice! lol

Brian


I'm glad to see you two agree on something, even if inadvertently. smilewinkgrin

You and I have been getting along too. Amazing. devil

BTW, I'm sure that I read somewhere when Finale2006 came out that there was a licensing issue preventing a single-step conversion to mp3. If so, that would also be the case for S******s.


Ron, composer
www.RonaldJBrown.com

Finale 2008, full GPO & JABB
Win XP/Pro, 2.7 GHz processor, 2 Gb RAM

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 10/29/2007 10:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
kylemac said...
Thanks for all the great suggestions folks. It does seem that NI is the culprit. Anybody know if Sibelius lets you save VST's such as GPO as mp3's? I'm going to try WinLAME as I've heard about it from others as well. I'm also going to learn to block people in my preferences. I wasn't aware you could do that. Sure will save time and scrolling.


I'm glad to see you got the MP3 thing fixed.

As far as the ignore list is concerned, well, it helps keep the unpleasant trolls at bay.
Use it wisely.


Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2008
currently installed: version 3.7.1 (under Win 3.11), 2006c, 2007c, 2008
Full GPO, Jazz and Big Band
Win XP

Les Éditions du Dos Blanc

Michel R. Edward

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Doug Blackmore
www.aviatorsmusic.com



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   Posted 10/29/2007 11:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I use iTunes to convert WAV to MP3, which I'm told creates a type of MP3 not possible with other converters. Again, something to do with proprietary formats. It's a bit of a drag, because (as far as I know) there is no "save as MP3". You have to convert a file in your "library", and then go looking for it deep beneath a hard-coded "root" directory and dig it out with Windows Explorer.


Doug Blackmore
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Finale 2006r3, Win 2K Pro

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 10/30/2007 5:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just Ron said...
Ebony Ivory said...
Actually, life is far quieter and more pleasant when certain people have you on their ignore lists, even if it means others sometimes get the same or similar information twice! lol

Brian


I'm glad to see you two agree on something, even if inadvertently. smilewinkgrin

You and I have been getting along too. Amazing. devil

BTW, I'm sure that I read somewhere when Finale2006 came out that there was a licensing issue preventing a single-step conversion to mp3. If so, that would also be the case for S******s.

I'm sure you're correct about MP3, Ron. Even the wonderful open source audio application, Audacity, is unable to support MP3 encoding. How LAME gets round this is curious: its name stands for (get ready to chuck up on the Industry's Most Contrived Acronym Yet) ...

Lame is not An MP3 Encoder

Yuck! :-)

But the clever thing about LAME, is that its authors don't supply it as a compiled application; instead, it comprises a heap of commented C++ and Assembler code which is designed as a "tool for research into audio compression techniques". The fact that other parties choose to compile it and stick the result on download sites is not the authors' problem, and it's those third-party builds that most of us use!

The first time you try to save an MP3 from Audacity, it asks you for the whereabouts, on your hard drive, of LAME.DLL or some similar MP3 encoder. Once you've ticked the box, Audacity is MP3-enabled thereafter.

One wonders why NI could not use a similar approach for MP3 creation, if they really are too tight to pony up the relatively modest royalties otherwise required. After all, MakeMusic pony up (I presume - or is a massive court hearing pending??!), and even CoolEdit, a shareware audio editor from a few years back, included a fully licensed MP3 encoder from the Fraunhofer Institute.

In any event, one thing I am sure about: the reason for not including MP3 cannot be technical. Even on my ageing 1GHz PIII, 256Mb Win98-running desktop machine, LAME.EXE (my preferred form) can encode MP3 files at seriously high quality at better than 10* faster-than-real time speed. If I'm willing to sacrifice some quality, I can get the speed up to 30* faster-then-real-time.

Brian


On ebony and ivory I'll tinkle all day long

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 10/30/2007 5:46 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
kylemac said...
Just tried MusicMatch as QcCowboy suggested and it works great, fast and free!

THANX!

It's good that MusicMatch works for you, but if your sole aim was to convert Finale WAV files into high-quality MP3s with the minimum of fuss, you might be better off with LAME. MusicMatch is a complete audio-jukebox application, with several issues that would stop me wanting it on my computers. Of course, if you like MM's other features, then all well and good.

FWIW, the version of LAME I use is a single, self-contained .EXE file (LAME.EXE version 3.96, just 197,120 bytes). No DLLs, no installation required, can be copied freely to any machine and run straight from a command line or batch file (eg, "LAME fred.wav fred.mp3"), and yet it has dozens of options for tweaking your results. Everything from bit rates (fixed and variable) to detailed controls over psychoacoustic techniques, relative gain and so on.

In other words, at its simplest, you just use it to convert WAVs into good MP3s; at its most detailed, you can specify and experiment with every single aspect of the conversion. It's an audiophile's dream! And it really is FREE, both as a compiled executable and as source code.

I've just used it to squeeze 13 of my favourite classical/jazz audio CDs onto a single CD-ROM, with no obvious quality issues, for use in my car's MP3-aware CD player. All by running a simple batch file, and going out for an hour or so for lunch! :-)

Brian


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Fritz Meissner
Choir Addict



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   Posted 10/30/2007 6:32 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
QcCouwboy said...
As far as the ignore list is concerned, well, it helps keep the unpleasant trolls at bay.
Use it wisely.


I'm still looking for the option that says "Ignore when they disagree with me" :-)

Fritz


PrintMusic 2004, 2006 and 2007, Windows XP Pro, Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS, P4 2.6 GHz + 1 GB
2nd Tenor Cape Town Male Voice Choir

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 10/30/2007 6:34 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fritz Meissner said...
QcCouwboy said...
As far as the ignore list is concerned, well, it helps keep the unpleasant trolls at bay.
Use it wisely.


I'm still looking for the option that says "Ignore when they disagree with me" :-)

Fritz

Although in this instance, its a case of "When I shut my eyes, the trolls vanish". Still, so long as he's happy ... :-)

Brian


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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 10/30/2007 6:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Doug Blackmore said...
I use iTunes to convert WAV to MP3, which I'm told creates a type of MP3 not possible with other converters. Again, something to do with proprietary formats.

It's a common myth that mp3 is an open, free format. In fact, it is heavily licensed and restricted. If you're looking for an open free standard format, you want AAC, which also offers better quality compression.
A charge often levelled at Apple is that it used its "own proprietory format" (AAC) instead of the "open industry standard" (MP3), when in fact the reverse is true. Hell, even the Zune plays AAC.
(Apologies for Mac fan boi-ism.)


Finale 2008, 2Ghz iMac, M-Audio Audiophile USB
Ancient Groove Music
www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 10/30/2007 7:19 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
It's a common myth that mp3 is an open, free format. In fact, it is heavily licensed and restricted. If you're looking for an open free standard format, you want AAC, which also offers better quality compression.
A charge often levelled at Apple is that it used its "own proprietory format" (AAC) instead of the "open industry standard" (MP3), when in fact the reverse is true. Hell, even the Zune plays AAC.
(Apologies for Mac fan boi-ism.)

I think that's a point that's been made fairly obvious in several recent postings, not least mine! Still, usage of MP3 is free, and solutions such as LAME seem to manage to bypass the restrictions.

The trouble with AAC and others is that they are not universal. My car, my cellphone, my Windows 98 computers - all play MP3 happily. None of them has a clue what to do with AAC files!

Brian


On ebony and ivory I'll tinkle all day long

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