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Daz
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   Posted 11/17/2007 10:18 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi

Using different dynamics on different layers is a hit and miss affair.

If you're using GPO sustaining instruments and HP, they will not work, no matter how you set up the channels etc. GPO Sustaining instruments use continuous data (CC#1) for dynamics, and HP will always send continuous data to the primary instruments channel (usually the channel on layer 1, or the channel with the instrument name matching the staff name).

Velocity based instruments (drums, piano etc) stand a better chance of success as long as each layer has its own instrument name.
Basically, if you're able to, try and use a separate staff for each instrument.
If you need to have a score has two different instruments sharing a same staff for publishing, create a duplicate score, based on your publishing score, for playback and separate the instruments out there.

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP

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cipandra
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   Posted 11/16/2007 6:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So, if I understand you correctly, when we use 2 different instruments in 2 different layers and each instrument has its own channel, program plays only dynamics if first layer? Playing two different dynamics from two different layers and 2 channels is not possible?

Daz, thx!
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Daz
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   Posted 11/8/2007 7:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Taz said...
Daz,
Is there any chance I could impose upon you to save the file you attached to your Nov. 7 response in an "07" format ?
I previously downloaded "notepad" to avoid asking this but that created some wierd problems.
If that's a pain, don't worry about it - it's not life or death.
I have been creating up to 4 different staves to achieve the result that you seem to make happen in like, Ahh "One".
I tried fooling around with my PM07 based on your suggestions, but I must be missing a point or two.
If you can, maybe sending it to my e-mail address might be the best choice (unless others have a similar situation)
Cheers,
Taz


Hi Taz

Here is a version, loosely based on the file that Joe originally posted. (In essence, just the first measure repeated)
A couple of notes.
1) HP is enabled
2) The layers share the same channel
3) Each layer has its own instrument name
4) Each layer responds to volume dynamic expressions on that layer only
5) Hairpins work
6) Turning HP off will cause the hairpins to stop working.

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP



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Taz
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   Posted 11/8/2007 3:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Daz,
Is there any chance I could impose upon you to save the file you attached to your Nov. 7 response in an "07" format ?
I previously downloaded "notepad" to avoid asking this but that created some wierd problems.
If that's a pain, don't worry about it - it's not life or death.
I have been creating up to 4 different staves to achieve the result that you seem to make happen in like, Ahh "One".
I tried fooling around with my PM07 based on your suggestions, but I must be missing a point or two.
If you can, maybe sending it to my e-mail address might be the best choice (unless others have a similar situation)
Cheers,
Taz


PM 2004, 06, 07
Born & Raised in Devonport, Tasmania.
Sony Vaio - XP,P4, the sound card that came with the PC.
 
"be alert, we need more Lerts"

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Daz
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   Posted 11/8/2007 10:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Still playing around, but consider the attached file.
Based on the file posted earlier, the main difference is that each layer has its own instrument name, but both share the same channel.

Play back the file, and you can hear both layers decrease in volume.
This can also be shown by using the apply HP plugin, then looking at the velocity values of each layer.

The decrease in volume is more noticeable on the drums than on the ride, although the change in velocity is similar to that of the drums. An oddity

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP



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Daz
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   Posted 11/8/2007 8:39 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
QcCowboy said...
I'm afraid I'm missing something in your response here. You said "Using the same channel (as is the case here) seems to be OK" however, your example uses two different channels for the two layers.

Have you tried applying hairpins to your file?
As I said, certain indications will not playback correctly if they are not in layer 1, or will not playback correctly IN other layers when applied (as they are, by default) to layer 1.

In your file, if you add hairpins, regardless of where you add them, they will only affect layer 1.

Therefore it appears that regardless of channels assigned, HP ignores layers other than layer 1 when it comes to playback of hairpins.


You're right on the channels... I think that I must need sleep.

I did try adding hairpins to the file, and they affected nothing. (HP is turned off)
However, some experimenting has produced some really surprising results.
I want to play around a bit more before addressing this a bit more

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 11/8/2007 6:30 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Daz said...
QcCowboy said...
An added detail:

If you require playback, I seem to recall HumanPlayback not recognizing hairpins and such on layers other than layer 1.


This is really only a problem if the different layers are on separate channels. In that instance, most dynamics will get sent to the channel that the primary voice is on (usually layer 1). Using the same channel (as is the case here) seems to be OK.

Cheers...


I'm afraid I'm missing something in your response here. You said "Using the same channel (as is the case here) seems to be OK" however, your example uses two different channels for the two layers.

Have you tried applying hairpins to your file?
As I said, certain indications will not playback correctly if they are not in layer 1, or will not playback correctly IN other layers when applied (as they are, by default) to layer 1.

In your file, if you add hairpins, regardless of where you add them, they will only affect layer 1.

Therefore it appears that regardless of channels assigned, HP ignores layers other than layer 1 when it comes to playback of hairpins.


Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2008
currently installed: version 3.7.1 (under Win 3.11), 2006c, 2007c, 2008
Full GPO, Jazz and Big Band
Win XP

Les Éditions du Dos Blanc

Michel R. Edward

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Daz
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   Posted 11/8/2007 3:13 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
QcCowboy said...
An added detail:

If you require playback, I seem to recall HumanPlayback not recognizing hairpins and such on layers other than layer 1.


This is really only a problem if the different layers are on separate channels. In that instance, most dynamics will get sent to the channel that the primary voice is on (usually layer 1). Using the same channel (as is the case here) seems to be OK.

Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 11/8/2007 12:16 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
An added detail:

If you require playback, I seem to recall HumanPlayback not recognizing hairpins and such on layers other than layer 1.


Finale versions: 3.0 -> 2008
currently installed: version 3.7.1 (under Win 3.11), 2006c, 2007c, 2008
Full GPO, Jazz and Big Band
Win XP

Les Éditions du Dos Blanc

Michel R. Edward

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Joe Maroni
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   Posted 11/7/2007 11:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Daz:

Thank you very much for your help. I now have a different dynamic for each layer.

Have a nice day. smile


Joe Maroni

Finale 2008

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michelp
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   Posted 11/7/2007 6:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Joe Maroni said...
Daz:
How do you assign the instruments to different channels. Thank you for your help.
Joe :-)

Daz suggests that you enter the 2 instruments in 2 different layers first. In the Instrument list window, use the little arrow on the left of the staff name to see all layers, with the realated instrument name, patch and Midi channel they use. Change Layer 2 to another Midi channel and to the appropriate patch.
If needed, use "Create New Instrument" to make sure a new Midi channel will be used.


Michel
Finale 2008, 2007c, 2005b on a MacG5 2x2,5 Gh (2,5 Go RAM) and MacOsX 10.4.10, French azerty kb, Dolet 3.6 (for Finale Mac). 24' LCD (pivoting) + 19' LCD, both Samsung. Midi interface : MOTU Midi Express XT. Roland Sound Canvas SC88-vl. Printer : Xerox Laser Docuprint N2825 (A3)

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Joe Maroni
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   Posted 11/7/2007 5:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Daz:


How do you assign the instruments to different channels. Thank you for your help.

Joe  :-)


Joe Maroni

Finale 2008

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Daz
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   Posted 11/7/2007 8:57 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Joe

Have a look at the file I've posted
You need to assign the instruments to different channels


Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006,2007,2008 - WinXP

Post Edited (Daz) : 11/7/2007 7:01:57 AM (GMT-6)



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Joe Maroni
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   Posted 11/7/2007 8:43 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have a part written for ride cymbal on level 1 and snare drum and bass drum on level 2.
Is it possible to have a different dymanic for each level such as - (ff) for level 1 and (mf) for level 2? I have attached a file for your review. Thank you for your help.
Joe :-)


Joe Maroni

Finale 2008



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