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tear
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 157

Posted 12/18/2008 1:15 AM (GMT -5)

I have not been on the forum for a few years. I have three questions.

1) I am trying to show how the half note trill is actually played. I got as far as the tr then I can't find anywhere how to make the wavy line for duration of the trill.

2) Still on trills, I can't fine anywhere the tiny 16th notes so I could show the last two tiny notes indicating how the trill ends.

3)On slides also, I am trying to show the three tiny 16th notes that precede the quarter note. No luck.

4) Sorry it's four. In two/four time I have four 16th notes as a group and then the next group is quintuplet in 16th notes. I go to the tuplet tool and follow instructions but it's giving me trouble. It will not let me put in the 5th 16th note. After I put in the four16ths, it starts showing me dotted 32nd rest. What am I doing wrong?

Can someone help me?

Thanks, Ted Lebar.

tbondude
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 10

Posted 12/18/2008 1:44 AM (GMT -5)

Which program are you using? NotePad? Print Music? Finale 09?

tear
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 157

Posted 12/18/2008 11:50 AM (GMT -5)

Sorry about it. I am using Finale 2009, Windows. As I said, I've been away from Finale and now it is changed. I feel like a stranger. Just this morning I tried to insert a blank page and what I got was a BLANK page, no staves on it. I searched everywhere but I could not find how to do it.

Thanks, Ted

Wlgold
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 1733

Posted 12/18/2008 11:52 AM (GMT -5)

tear said...
Sorry about it. I am using Finale 2009, Windows. As I said, I've been away from Finale and now it is changed. I feel like a stranger. Just this morning I tried to insert a blank page and what I got was a BLANK page, no staves on it. I searched everywhere but I could not find how to do it.

Thanks, Ted

Insert measures.

Finale 2008a, XP Pro, 1GB, full GPO, JABB

Zuill
"The Troll"

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077

Posted 12/18/2008 1:44 PM (GMT -5)

1) Smart shapes.

2)If it goes to another note, use grace notes atached before that note. Otherwise, there are options. Let us know the look you want.

3) Sounds like grace notes again.

4) You'll have better luck creating the quintuplet from within Speedy or Simple Entry, rather than using the Tuplet tool. Even with that, in Simple, there are some bugs with creating tuplets which have been documented, although your description does not fit any of the bugs I'm aware of.

Zuill

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win 2000 or XP

Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

rbratton
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 390

Posted 12/18/2008 3:46 PM (GMT -5)

tear said...

1) I am trying to show how the half note trill is actually played. I got as far as the tr then I can't find anywhere how to make the wavy line for duration of the trill.

Thanks, Ted Lebar.

As Zuill said, you'd use Smart Shapes.

To elaborate a little: from the Smart Shapes tool bar, select the "tr" Smart Shape, click and hold on the note where the trill is to begin, then drag the mouse to the right to add the wavy line for the duration.

randy

Randy Bratton

Finale 3.0.6 - 2009b

Full GPO, JABB, CoMB, Full KONTAKT 3, SONAR 8 Producer

Windows XP Pro SP3

Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4GHz/4GB RAM

E-MU 1820 PCI Audio Interface

tear
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 157

Posted 12/18/2008 10:24 PM (GMT -5)

Thanks, the small 16th notes work with the help of the grace note at the bottom of the simple tool pallette. I found quite by accident that if I click on the 16th note first and then go to the little grace note, it turns into small 16th notes.

I still have a problem with tr and the wavy line following it. I tried the articulation but it still does not work. I clicked on the handle of the tr but when I moved the tr went with the cursor. I ran into much more of a problem. I am writing a theory book myself, since my favorite one is out of print. At one point on page 24 I inserted a stave and the whole thing went crazy on me. Staves got all tangled up. Some staves went backwards 2 or 3 pages. I trid to fix it but it just got worse. I had to errase a few pages. Now my music goes as far as page 22, then, on page 23.the staves refuse to be placed on the page proper, instead all the staves are situated below the normal white page on the grey part of it. I tried everything to move those staves back onto the page but no luck. It is very tempting to start all over, but that's 6 hours of work.

Also the turn sign which normally appears horizontally, but fot the inverted turn I need it in a vertical position. I tried evrything but again, no luck. And, accidentals, I need to show above or below the turns and mordents to indicate the note that are sharp or flat. I have no idea how this is done. If you get discouraged while reading about my problems, I will understand.

Thank you very much, Ted.

tear
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 157

Posted 12/19/2008 1:47 AM (GMT -5)

I forgot to mention that when I tried the quintuplet with the speedy entry, some frame came up and there was nothing about any kind of timing, if I understood correctly what I was told.

Occasionally I also have trouble with triplets, especially if I have the triplet on the last beat of the measure. I usually cheat by puting triplet in first and then put in the rest of the notes. I wonder if others have these difficulties sometimes.

Thanks, Ted.

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 12/19/2008 12:08 PM (GMT -5)

Ted,
Enter your tuplet with Simple. I had no problem doing it in PrintMusic 2008. Take a look at the document Tuplets in Simple Entry, on my mini-tutorial page (listed below.) If you still have a problem, feel free to repost, or PM me.

Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

WebMaster for the Seattle SeaChordsmen
www.seachordsmen.org

NEW SITE www.specialmillwork.com/finale_tips.htm

Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

tear
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 157

Posted 12/19/2008 1:33 PM (GMT -5)

Thanks Mike, it works like a charm. I so got used to using the tuplet tool that it simply didn't occur to me to use the simple entry tuplets. I wonder if you saw my other problems, inserting a stave, inserting a blank page, which really was blank, that is, no staves on it, etc. As I said, I may have to scrap 60 hours of work, but I am not looking forward to it.

Thanks, Ted.

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 12/19/2008 1:45 PM (GMT -5)

Ted,
Glad the tuplets worked out for you. As far as the staff insert problem is concerned, I suspect optimization somewhere is the culprit. (Since I don't have the full Finale, I'm not really skilled enough to troubleshoot it.)

I have a suggestion, though. Why not break your theory book into sections, rather than doing it as one long file? That way, changes in layout, keys, staves, etc. won't affect the other parts. When you're done, then you can assemble them into book form, either as a group of PDF files, or use one of the publishing programs. Again, I'm not knowledgeable to give you step-by-step instructions, but I know others have done this.

tear
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 157

Posted 12/19/2008 2:52 PM (GMT -5)

Thank you very much Mike, I will look at this optimization and see what happens.

Regards, Ted.

tear
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 157

Posted 12/19/2008 7:03 PM (GMT -5)

I have been poking at it, trying to see if I can discover anything that would make sense. Right now, I need to insert a new page, but really, that could be done by adding more measures? Correct? So, it's all in the measures. When I do add, even one measure, it does not attach itself to the last measure on the page, instead it goes to the next page, but, actually below the page on the grey part. I am totally beside myself as to what caused it.
The other thing is still in the ornaments. The "turn" which normally is in horisontal position, but for the inverted turn, I need it in vertical position and I simply can't find anything that would guide me to that solution. Then the "Trill" shown as tr---and the way line which I can't find anywhere. If someone knows how this is done, could you show it in a very simple way. I am not that skilled on the machine.

Thank you very much.
Ted Lebar.

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 12/19/2008 7:13 PM (GMT -5)

Ted, for the trill with the wavy line, try this:
Select the trill shape; move to the note where you want it to start. Double-click, but hold the mouse button down after the second click (don't release it. It's actually more like a click-and-a-half.) Drag the mouse to the right, as far as you want it to go. The wavy line should be there. Now you can release the button.

You might have to do the vertical turn in the shape designer. Again, I can't help you more than that. Look in the help files for more info.

tear
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 157

Posted 12/19/2008 9:36 PM (GMT -5)

Hi Mike, I tried what you said and I got as far as getting the "tr" and a short wavy line. It even plays back as a trill. So far so good. Then I clicked on it to move it. With the second click, the "articulation designer" opened up. I repeated it 20 times and, same thing happened each time.

As far as the the "turn' goes, I went to the manual and printed out three pages of Shape Designer Material. I followed it carefully. "It says, "Preceeding through the dialog boxes, click as follows: Shape; Create; Select; Create". Well, I did get to the shape designer but, the shapes I found there had nothing to do with the "turn". It looked more like retarded kids were having a free-for-all with crayons. I simply could not see how someone can create a "turn" out of any of those shapes. But, among other things, it says: "Verify that the setting for Note-attached you prefer is selected. Well, I can't see where this is. it looks as if this manual is for 1979. There is no relationship between what I see on the monitor and what the manual says. Wow. Don't mind me, but I am completely frustrated.

Thanks for your help.

Merry Xmas to you, Ted.

Mike Rosen
himself

Date Joined Feb 2006
Total Posts : 14146

Posted 12/19/2008 10:06 PM (GMT -5)

Ted,
Glad you got the trill and line. I'm not sure why you're having a problem after that, though. After I have the trill in place, if I click once, it is selected with a purple box around it. I can then click and hold on it, and drag it where I want. If I double-click, I get three selection boxes: one in the middle, and one on each end. The one in the center lets me move the trill, the right and left ones let me extend or contract it. Getting the Articulation designer may be a Finale thing.

I'm just speculating here, but in the shape designer, do you have the opportunity to select an existing shape? Can you choose the horizontal turn, and then rotate it? (Like I said, I'm just speculating, based on what I've read about people doing.)

You might want to post another question, limited to asking for help with the shape designer.

tear
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 1999
Total Posts : 157

Posted 12/19/2008 11:36 PM (GMT -5)

Thanks Mike, I will do just that, post another question.

Thanks for yopur help.

Warm regards, Ted.

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