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COBI
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   Posted 8/15/2010 1:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hello all,

Wondering if anyone else has seen this and (hopefully!) has a fix or workaround.

Doing a lead sheet in Finale 2011. I have entered the chord symbols above the staff, and they play back just as expected. However, if I decide I don't want a chord on a certain beat, Finale does not let me delete it. I select it, hit Delete, and nothing happens. I have also tried using the right-click menu. Same problem. I have tried deleting the notes in the measure (I'm using alternate, rhythm notation style). That doesn't work either. I have tried just about everything I can think of, and the darn chord symbol simply will not be deleted. Closing and reopening the file does not have any effect. Even closing Finale and restarting it does not help.

Help?!?!?


Chuck Beck
Swan-Cross, Ltd.
www.swan-cross.com
My setup: Windows XP (Home); CPU 2.8 MHz; 2GB RAM; Finale 2011

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Jürg Hochweber-
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   Posted 8/15/2010 2:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Try to go to a different layer.
Sometimes this happens when you have entered the chords to notes in layer 1 while you are in layer 2.

Jürg Hochweber

www.hochweeber.ch
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michelp
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   Posted 8/15/2010 4:35 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Do you see the handle of the chord (when you are in the Chord tool) ? Normally, when the chord tool is selected, all the chords have their handles, whatever layer they are in, and they can be deleted.
Can you post an excerpt of the .mus file that includes the chord symbol ?


Michel
Finale (2011 to be installed), 2010b, 2009b, 2008b on a MacG5 2x2,5 Gh (4,5 Go RAM) and MacOsX 10.5.8, French azerty kb, Dolet 5.3. Full TGTools. Midi interface : MOTU Midi Express XT. Roland Sound Canvas SC88-vl.

Post Edited (michelp) : 8/15/2010 8:41:32 AM (GMT-5)

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Messy Piano
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   Posted 8/15/2010 8:00 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Try selecting the chord symbol with the selection tool (the arrow inside the dotted box) and you should be able to delete it if you are working in the correct layer.

If you select the chord symbol with your mouse by highlighting the symbol and click delete, (like you might do in another program) it will not stay deleted. So try to the selection tool. It works fine for me and I am using 2011.

Susan
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COBI
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   Posted 8/15/2010 3:03 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks to all of you who have responded so far. In response to your suggestions:
  • In this particular case, I am only working in Layer 1, so I know that the chord was not entered into any other layer.
  • Yes, I do see the handle for the chord symbol. I can select the handle and it remains highlighted. However, when I press the Delete key or select Delete from the right-click menu, the chord is not deleted and the handle becomes unselected.
  • I tried selecting the chord with the Selection tool, as Susan suggested, and then deleting it. That worked, more or less. That is, I was unable to select just the chord symbol. However, I was able to select the associated note and delete both it AND the chord symbol, which meant I then had to re-enter the note. But at least it did (finally!) get rid of the pesky chord symbol.

I'm thinkin' this is a bug. In previous versions, I know I was able to select and delete a chord symbol without having to go through all this rigmarole.

Thanks again to each of you for your suggestions. I appreciate the help.

Cheers,
Chuck


Chuck Beck
Swan-Cross, Ltd.
www.swan-cross.com
My setup: Windows XP (Home); CPU 2.8 GHz; 2GB RAM; Finale 2011

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Mike Rosen
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   Posted 8/15/2010 3:18 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
cChuck, I haven't had any trouble with this. Could you post the file?



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

WebMaster and bass for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
Bass for What's Cookin' www.whatscookinvlq.com
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010; Finale 2010b, 2011
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996



"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Messy Piano
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   Posted 8/15/2010 8:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I didn't say select the chord, I said select the chord symbol, such as C7, with the selection tool, hit delete, and it's gone. It's very straightforward and simple.
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COBI
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   Posted 8/16/2010 11:32 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Susan,

Even though I said, "I tried selecting the chord with the Selection tool...", I meant chord symbol. I even said as much later in that statement: "...I was unable to select just the chord symbol." I am still unable to select just the chord symbol using the Selection tool. The only way I could get rid of the blamed chord symbol was as I described in my last post, by deleting the actual chord/beat, which deleted the entire chord and also deleted the associated chord symbol. And even THAT does not work if I use the Backspace key to delete the chord. I have to actually use the Delete key with the chord/beat selected using the Selection tool.

So, no, on my system it is NOT very straightforward and simple. I wish it were. It should be.

Michel,

I will attach an excerpt from the file I'm working on, one that illustrates the problem I'm having.

Thanks,
Chuck


Chuck Beck
Swan-Cross, Ltd.
www.swan-cross.com
My setup: Windows XP (Home); CPU 2.8 GHz; 2GB RAM; Finale 2011



File Attachment :
chord excerpt.mus   60KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 296 time(s).
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Mike Rosen
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   Posted 8/16/2010 12:04 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Chuck, if you switch to Normal Notation, you can delete the chord symbols with no problem. Then, return to rhythmic notation.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

WebMaster and bass for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
Bass for What's Cookin' www.whatscookinvlq.com
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010; Finale 2010b, 2011
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996



"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Messy Piano
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   Posted 8/16/2010 12:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm sorry if I insulted you. I have just been trying to help and give back to the forum. I am not an expert like a lot of the users here. However, I make leadsheets without your problem, so that is why I offered my suggestion.

I tried to re-create your problem with one of my lead-sheets in 2011, and I couldn't.

However, I was able to delete your chords when I opened your document. I'm not sure how you set it up, but it must be different than what I do.

This is what worked for me on your document. If you will uncheck "show guitar fret-boards" in the chord menu, you will be able to delete your chord symbols by clicking on them. It will cause the chord symbols to move down to the staff, so then you can move them up above the staff with the arrows on the left. I hope this will work for you.

Susan

Susan
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michelp
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   Posted 8/16/2010 12:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Messy Piano said...
This is what worked for me on your document. If you will uncheck "show guitar fret-boards" in the chord menu, you will be able to delete your chord symbols by clicking on them. It will cause the chord symbols to move down to the staff, so then you can move them up above the staff with the arrows on the left. I hope this will work for you.
Susan

Chuck, I opened your test file, and indeed, I couldn't delete the chord symbols using the usual way(s).
But Susan's suggestion worked fine and I could easily delete chord symbols.


Michel
Finale (2011 to be installed), 2010b, 2009b, 2008b on a MacG5 2x2,5 Gh (4,5 Go RAM) and MacOsX 10.5.8, French azerty kb, Dolet 5.3. Full TGTools. Midi interface : MOTU Midi Express XT. Roland Sound Canvas SC88-vl.

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COBI
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   Posted 8/16/2010 9:38 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Susan,

No offense was taken on my part and, I hope, none given in return. I really appreciate your willingness to help! If I sounded a bit short, it was probably because 1) I was running very short on time in my last response; 2) I really was just trying to help you understand that I had tried exactly what you suggested but was unable to make it work the way you said it would (and I believe it should); and 3) the written word is often a lousy way to convey the nuances of language, and it is all too easy to mistake someone's tone.

It's interesting to me that both you and Mike suggested that I turn off the "Show guitar fretboards" option, because I had already done that, too. In the excerpt that I submitted, in fact, they were not being displayed on my setup. I was already looking only at the chord symbols. Hmmm. Curiouser and curiouser.

[Oh, and for what it's worth, this didn't actually start out as a simple lead sheet, so maybe therein lies the problem. This actually is part of a much larger score.]

Mike,

I have not tried switching to normal notation, but I doubt little that that would work. Still it seems wrong that I should have to do that every time I make a mistake and enter a chord where I did not mean to (or every time I change my mind about a chord). Seems to me it ought to work the same way regardless of which notation mode I'm in, no?

So, in the end, I still have a file that will not allow me to delete chord symbols easily, though it seems that others have been able to do so in that same file with few or no problems. Weird. However, I have a couple workarounds that will allow me to do what I need to do, even if it is more time-consuming and awkward.

Makes me wonder why the difference though. Just out of curiosity, how often do each you participating in this discussion upgrade Finale? I usually skip and upgrade only every other time a new upgrade comes out. So, I upgraded to 2011 from 2009. Did you all upgrade from 2010 to 2011? Might that be the source of the discrepancy?

Whatever. I have a couple workarounds, so I am reasonably content. And I am VERY thankful to each of you who have helped me find these workarounds.

Cheers,
Chuck


Chuck Beck
Swan-Cross, Ltd.
www.swan-cross.com
My setup: Windows XP (Home); CPU 2.8 GHz; 2GB RAM; Finale 2011

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Messy Piano
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   Posted 8/17/2010 7:59 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Chuck, I upgraded from 2009 but I usually upgrade every 3 or so years. I wonder if your problem is some sort of bug that is caused by setting up a document a certain way.
Don't they usually come out with an upgrade after a few months?

It might be worth contacting Make Music. I have found a bug in the new lyric tool, but I'm able to work around it.
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COBI
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   Posted 8/17/2010 5:59 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks again, Susan.

I'm game to report it as a bug. How do I go about doing that?

Cheers,
Chuck


Chuck Beck
Swan-Cross, Ltd.
www.swan-cross.com
My setup: Windows XP (Home); CPU 2.8 GHz; 2GB RAM; Finale 2011

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Zuill
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   Posted 8/17/2010 7:45 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When you select the measure or measures themselves, then go to Clear Selected Items>Chords, does that work?

Zuill


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COBI
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   Posted 8/17/2010 8:17 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey Zuill,

Yep, that does work. Still seems too indirect to me, but it's nice to know that there is yet another workaround. Thanks!

Chuck


Chuck Beck
Swan-Cross, Ltd.
www.swan-cross.com
My setup: Windows XP (Home); CPU 2.8 GHz; 2GB RAM; Finale 2011

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Scott Hirsch (Coach)
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   Posted 8/18/2010 6:58 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Chuck

You can submit a case to support.MakeMusic.com. If you need any assistance, please send me a PM with your email and I will have someone from Support contact you.


Scott Hirsch
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Greatmohel
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   Posted 8/18/2010 1:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Make sure that you have the chord tool selected and under that menu, make sure you have manual input selected.  You should then be able to highlight the handle and delete the chord.
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Greatmohel
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   Posted 8/18/2010 1:14 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This is going to sound rediculous but, make sure "show fretboads" is unchecked and then try to delete the chords. I tried it and it works.
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COBI
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   Posted 8/18/2010 9:37 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Scott,

I have submitted a support request for this problem as you suggested. Thanks for the guidance.

To everyone else,

In the course of submitting my support request, I stumbled on what I think is part of the problem (though I still think that it is not working as it should, which is why I went ahead and submitted my report request).

I found myself scratching my head and wondering why so many were suggesting that I deselect the Show Fretboards option on the Chord menu. I thought I had already done that, because the fretboards were not displaying on my system. I almost inadvertently discovered that, in fact, I had NOT deselected the Show Fretboards option—yet the fretboards were not displaying!

It turns out that the discrepancy was caused by the fact that, in the Staff Attributes dialog box for that staff, in the Items to Display section, I had the Fretboard option deselected. THAT was the reason that fretboards were not displaying.

When I deselected the Show Fretboards option on the Chord menu, as several suggested, indeed and voilá, I was able to then select chord symbol handles and delete them as expected. So, that clears up that particular mystery.

However, it seems to me that it raises new issues:
  • Why does the Show Fretboards option have to be deselected before you can delete a chord symbol? It shouldn't make any difference.

  • Apparently others were seeing the fretboards when they opened my excerpt file, even though I had set the Staff Attributes to not display fretboards. (Correct me if I'm wrong...) I thought Staff Attributes were supposed to be saved with the file...?

In any case, I know now how to get it to work as expected. Thanks again to all who have made suggestions and offered their thoughts on this. This is indeed a terrific forum and community. I'll let you all know how MakeMusic responds to my support request (which included the findings I stumbled upon).

Cheers,
Chuck


Chuck Beck
Swan-Cross, Ltd.
www.swan-cross.com
My setup: Windows XP (Home); CPU 2.8 GHz; 2GB RAM; Finale 2011

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michelp
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   Posted 8/19/2010 4:40 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
COBI said...
even though I had set the Staff Attributes to not display fretboards. (Correct me if I'm wrong...) I thought Staff Attributes were supposed to be saved with the file...?

Chuck,

In the staff attributes window, if you select "Fretboards", they become be visible on the screen with the chords symbols and can be deleted together.
In the chord menu, if you don't use fretboards, it is apparently better to deselect "show fretboards" (as we all found out).
Thus, select or deselect these two options (staff attributes + "show fretboards" menu) if you use fretboards or you don't.
I agree that it is a bit strange and unnecessarily complicated (can we call it a bug, not sure), but at least you now know what to do.

PS : yes, staff attributes are always saved with the file.


Michel
Finale (2011 to be installed), 2010b, 2009b, 2008b on a MacG5 2x2,5 Gh (4,5 Go RAM) and MacOsX 10.5.8, French azerty kb, Dolet 5.3. Full TGTools. Midi interface : MOTU Midi Express XT. Roland Sound Canvas SC88-vl.

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Monika
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   Posted 11/30/2010 2:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Sticky" (difficult-to-delete) chord symbols are also a problem in PrintMusic 2011, which doesn't have as many tools as Finale to work with. Any ideas?


In Search of the Right Chord
PrintMusic2010

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Mike Rosen
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   Posted 11/30/2010 2:56 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Monika said...
"Sticky" (difficult-to-delete) chord symbols are also a problem in PrintMusic 2011, which doesn't have as many tools as Finale to work with. Any ideas?


Can you post a file where you are having issues?



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

WebMaster and bass for the Seattle SeaChordsmen www.seachordsmen.org
Bass for What's Cookin' www.whatscookinvlq.com
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finaletips.htm

Print Music 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010; Finale 2010b, 2011b
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

Favorite reference: Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Gerou & Lusk, 1996



"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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gochugogi
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   Posted 10/23/2011 2:17 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just wanted to say I have encountered the same "can't delete chord symbol" bug as the OP on several occasions. The only thing that worked was to quit Finale and restart the program. Nixed the bug every time. Alas, there are a few other random bugs like this that a restart seems to fix.
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