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Geometrian
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 2:37 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi,

I've noticed that higher notes sound louder than quieter ones for some reason. This appears especially dramatically in instruments with large range, like the pipe organ. It's not an issue with speakers or human perception; analyzing the waveform of actual sound being played shows that lower notes actually have lesser amplitude.

What should I do to set up a constant volume?

Thanks,
Ian
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Jeanne R
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 12:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm assuming you are using the full Finale: Start with turning off Human Playback (Window > Playback Controls). Then you can turn it back on and fine-tune those settings if you like. When you go into HP Preferences, clicking the Help button and spending some time with the documentation is advisable. There are a great many options in there but, admittedly, some people never use HP.

If that doesn't work, do advise program and version when you post again.

Jeanne
Win XP Pro, Finale 2008a, GPO 3

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Flint
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 12:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Do you have dynamics in your score? If you're not including dynamic expressions, this may happen.

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2011b using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows Vista 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM, Soundblaster Audigy II zs

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

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Fritz Meissner
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 1:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Geometrian said...
Hi,

I've noticed that higher notes sound louder than quieter ones for some reason. This appears especially dramatically in instruments with large range, like the pipe organ. It's not an issue with speakers or human perception; analyzing the waveform of actual sound being played shows that lower notes actually have lesser amplitude.

What should I do to set up a constant volume?

Thanks,
Ian


Is there a typo in there somewhere ? Higher notes sound louder than quieter ones is presumably not what you meant to say :-)

Fritz

PrintMusic 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2010 Windows 7 Home Premium, Pentium i5 750 quad core + 4 GB; Cakewalk UA-101
2nd Tenor Cape Town Male Voice Choir
Use the Finale Knowledgebase first ! :-)

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alashwil
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 1:23 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can somebody help me please. How I can get a PDF file from Finale Notation File without having to print the music?
Thank you.
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Geometrian
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 2:14 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fritz Meissner said...
Is there a typo in there somewhere ? Higher notes sound louder than quieter ones is presumably not what you meant to say :-)
Yeah; should have been "higher notes sound louder than lower ones" :-)
Jeanne R said...
I'm assuming you are using the full Finale: Start with turning off Human Playback (Window > Playback Controls). Then you can turn it back on and fine-tune those settings if you like. When you go into HP Preferences, clicking the Help button and spending some time with the documentation is advisable. There are a great many options in there but, admittedly, some people never use HP.

If that doesn't work, do advise program and version when you post again.
Changing from "Standard" to "None" doesn't seem to help. Using Finale 2011b.
Flint said...
Do you have dynamics in your score?
No. Which specifically should I add?

Thanks,
Ian
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wish910
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 2:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Very well done, Geometrian:

We should work harder and harder to let MakeMusic know:

The combination of Score and VST Sound is very important. :)

 
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Flint
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 2:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Geometrian said...
Flint said...
Do you have dynamics in your score?
No. Which specifically should I add?
Any.

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2011b using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows Vista 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM, Soundblaster Audigy II zs

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

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Jeanne R
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 4:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I can't open your file with my version and I can't re-create your problem. But I take it that you are playing back thru VST? That seems to make a flatter waveform. My very simple test file had no markings of any kind.

Could there be some residue of MIDI data in the file? That can happen even if you don't enter with Hyperscribe. You can try clearing that out with EDIT > Clear selected items.

Does this happen in just this file? Was the file created in another product/version? If you export XML and bring it back in, does the problem remain?

Jeanne
Win XP Pro, Finale 2008a, GPO 3

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Fritz Meissner
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 4:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Geometrian said...
Fritz Meissner said...
Is there a typo in there somewhere ? Higher notes sound louder than quieter ones is presumably not what you meant to say :-)
Yeah; should have been "higher notes sound louder than lower ones" :-)


Now I'm confused. If the lower notes have lesser amplitude, then they will obviously sound softer - or was that also a typo ? Due to both physics and the mechanisms of the ear, higher notes will always sound louder than lower notes of the same amplitude; to make them appear equally loud, the lower notes will have to be of substantially larger amplitude. The exact ratios will depend on the frequencies and sound levels involved. There are graphs available of levels required for constant apparent loudness at different frequencies; they are called Fletcher Munson curves. You can see the graph, and more details in the book Music, a Mathematical Offering which is available as a free PDF download from that web page.

Fritz

PrintMusic 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2010 Windows 7 Home Premium, Pentium i5 750 quad core + 4 GB; Cakewalk UA-101
2nd Tenor Cape Town Male Voice Choir
Use the Finale Knowledgebase first ! :-)

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Mike Rosen
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 4:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
alashwil said...
Can somebody help me please. How I can get a PDF file from Finale Notation File without having to print the music?
Thank you.


Welcome to the forum.

Use one of the free PDF convertors. I use PDF Creator, from sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator


Mike Rosen
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Geometrian
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 6:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fritz Meissner said...
Now I'm confused. If the lower notes have lesser amplitude, then they will obviously sound softer
Yeah, and that's the problem. I'd like them to be the same volume.

Fritz Meissner said...
Due to both physics and the mechanisms of the ear, higher notes will always sound louder than lower notes of the same amplitude; to make them appear equally loud, the lower notes will have to be of substantially larger amplitude. The exact ratios will depend on the frequencies and sound levels involved. There are graphs available of levels required for constant apparent loudness at different frequencies; they are called Fletcher Munson curves. You can see the graph, and more details in the book Music, a Mathematical Offering which is available as a free PDF download from that web page.
Hence my statement in the first post:
Geometrian said...
It's not an issue with speakers or human perception; analyzing the waveform of actual sound being played shows that lower notes actually have lesser amplitude.
To do this, I redirected the output of the sound directly into the microphone port with a cable, and recorded the result in Audacity.

Jeanne R said...
Does this happen in just this file? Was the file created in another product/version? If you export XML and bring it back in, does the problem remain?
I tried again with a completely new file, using VST organ. A simple descending scale still slowly decreases in volume. The problem also occurs playing through MIDI.

Thanks,
-Ian
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Jeanne R
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 9:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Geometrian said...

To do this, I redirected the output of the sound directly into the microphone port with a cable, and recorded the result in Audacity


Don't do this. Create a *.WAV file using FILE > SAVE SPECIAL. Then bring the *.WAV into audacity and examine.

Do please let us know what happens.

Jeanne
Win XP Pro, Finale 2008a, GPO 3

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Geometrian
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 9:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jeanne R said...
Don't do this. Create a *.WAV file using FILE > SAVE SPECIAL. Then bring the *.WAV into audacity and examine.

Done. Same result. For a downward scale:

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Doug Blackmore
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  		   Posted 3/25/2011 10:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This is a recording of my Roland M-GS 64 external MIDI module, controlled by Finale 2006 - no human playback, no dynamic markings:

Doug Blackmore
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Finale 2006r3, Win 2K Pro


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Flint
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  		   Posted 3/26/2011 12:00 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Again, did you insert a dynamic marking into the score?

woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2011b using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 2nd ed. Full version, Garritan Jazz & Big Band, Garritan Concert and Marching Band, Windows Vista 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM, Soundblaster Audigy II zs

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

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Geometrian
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  		   Posted 3/26/2011 12:03 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Flint said...
Again, did you insert a dynamic marking into the score?
Yeah. Also, articulations just for kicks. Neither helped.
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Jeanne R
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  		   Posted 3/26/2011 12:20 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My waveforms look like Doug's, and I confess I'm stumped. It doesn't look random enough to be corruption. Something is at work and we're just not getting to the right question. If you don't get an answer soon, take it to tech support and upload the file to them.

Jeanne
Win XP Pro, Finale 2008a, GPO 3

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Doug Blackmore
www.aviatorsmusic.com



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  		   Posted 3/26/2011 11:21 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It is as if the keyboard is somehow doubled with the expression controller.

Doug Blackmore
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Finale 2006r3, Win 2K Pro

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