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Jeremy Levy
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   Posted 12/14/2011 5:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This is in Finale 2011. Is there a default way to not have notes hidden under slash notation effect spacing? I have a playback layer underneath the slashes, and the accidentals are messing up how it is displayed. Obviously, there shouldn't be all that white space at the beginning of the bar.

Thoughts?

Jeremy


Jeremy Levy
Trombonist, Orchestrator, Composer/Arranger, Copyist
Santa Monica, CA
www.jlevymusic.com
Finale 2007-2011


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Derrek
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   Posted 12/14/2011 6:52 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Would using Time-Signature spacing (rather than note spacing) help?


Finale 2012 - Windows 7
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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 12/14/2011 6:55 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Turn off spacing for the entries. There's a Windows plug-in for that on the tips site.


Jari Williamsson

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www.finaletips.nu - The Finale Productivity Tips site

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Jeremy Levy
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   Posted 12/14/2011 7:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jari,

Which plugin are you referring to? I'm not seeing it. Also, how do you turn off spacing for entries manually? Oh, and this is for Mac. Figured there is more traffic on the PC forum.


Jeremy Levy
Trombonist, Orchestrator, Composer/Arranger, Copyist
Santa Monica, CA
www.jlevymusic.com
Finale 2007-2011

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Jeremy Levy
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   Posted 12/14/2011 7:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ah, figured it out. Need to turn off "avoid collision of hidden notes" in the document options. That seems to fix it.


Jeremy Levy
Trombonist, Orchestrator, Composer/Arranger, Copyist
Santa Monica, CA
www.jlevymusic.com
Finale 2007-2011

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 12/14/2011 9:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yet another bug. Spacing should of course be based on what's displayed.


Finale 2011b, 2005b, TGTools
Finale 2012 demo
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Jeremy Levy
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   Posted 12/14/2011 10:18 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's weird, I'm pretty sure that used to be the default behavior. I remember around 2010 or 2011, that my drum parts starting including the spacing of hidden notes under the slashes. They must have added in that check box and I never noticed.

I'm curious when you would want Finale to include hidden notes in its spacing?


Jeremy Levy
Trombonist, Orchestrator, Composer/Arranger, Copyist
Santa Monica, CA
www.jlevymusic.com
Finale 2007-2011

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Ekenbo
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   Posted 12/15/2011 6:10 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How do I get slash evenly distributed?
My pianist barking at the way I (Finale) write!
See attached picture...
I've done all the settings you have previously proposed!
 


/Ekenbo - Finale v2.2>>2012, Win 7, 4 GB, i5


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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 12/15/2011 6:20 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
Yet another bug. Spacing should of course be based on what's displayed.


So it's basically a bug because it's not a feature you don't need?

Jeremy Levy said...
It's weird, I'm pretty sure that used to be the default behavior. I remember around 2010 or 2011, that my drum parts starting including the spacing of hidden notes under the slashes. They must have added in that check box and I never noticed.


The check box has been there since they added the 3-level (document level/entry level/notehead level) music spacing feature in 2002. The thing that has changed in recent Finale versions is that the definition of a "hidden note" now includes entries hidden by staff styles as well. In earlier versions, a hidden entry was only manually hidden entries.

Jeremy Levy said...
I'm curious when you would want Finale to include hidden notes in its spacing?


Space placeholders or beat chart fine tuning, for example.


Jari Williamsson

Windows XP, Pentium 4
2.40 GHz, 4 GB RAM

www.finaletips.nu - The Finale Productivity Tips site

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 12/15/2011 10:34 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ekenbo said...
How do I get slash evenly distributed?
My pianist barking at the way I (Finale) write!
See attached picture...
I've done all the settings you have previously proposed!
How did you apply spacing? What spacing option are you using? If this is the linked part, did you reapply spacing in the part? Are there notes hidden by the slashes? Did you try unchecking the item mentioned in this thread?
 
Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012 Soon?
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 12/15/2011 8:08:48 PM (GMT-6)

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Jeremy Levy
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   Posted 12/15/2011 3:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jari said...

The check box has been there since they added the 3-level (document level/entry level/notehead level) music spacing feature in 2002. The thing that has changed in recent Finale versions is that the definition of a "hidden note" now includes entries hidden by staff styles as well. In earlier versions, a hidden entry was only manually hidden entries.



Jari,

I believe you are correct that Finale changed its behavior for what is or isn't a "hidden note." I just never figured out the work around until now.

Btw, a huge thanks to you for creating the "JW Note Ends" plugin. You have no idea how much time and effort that has saved me.

Jeremy


Jeremy Levy
Trombonist, Orchestrator, Composer/Arranger, Copyist
Santa Monica, CA
www.jlevymusic.com
Finale 2007-2011

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Motet
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   Posted 12/15/2011 5:39 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't see how the slashes being spaced according to what's invisible underneath them could possibly be considered a feature, but enlighten me if I'm wrong.


Finale 2011b, 2005b, TGTools
Finale 2012 demo
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Derrek
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   Posted 12/15/2011 7:39 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, it might make sense at the score level, just not in the parts.


Finale 2012 - Windows 7
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Motet
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   Posted 12/15/2011 9:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You mean if the slashes are in the parts and the notes in the score? In a score, spacing is influenced by everything that's happening vertically. I would expect slashes, wherever they appear, to be spaced like quarter notes would be in the same setting.


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Derrek
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   Posted 12/18/2011 2:48 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I was thinking of your second option. In the parts, slashes would be equidistant while in the score they would reflect hidden notes in the part as well as the general note-spacing in the other parts.

In the odd case where the hidden notes in the slashed part were the determining factor for the spacing of the bar in the score (say slashed part had hidden sixteenths in some beats and all other parts had whole notes or whole rests) one would probably want to select time-sig or beat spacing for that measure to evenly space the slashes so what one saw appeared logical.


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Motet
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   Posted 12/18/2011 3:25 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It makes no sense to me to base spacing on something you can't see.


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Derrek
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   Posted 12/18/2011 2:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
exactly, which was what my second paragraph was about


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Motet
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   Posted 12/18/2011 2:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
But, unless I'm misunderstanding you, not your first.

Resorting to some other spacing to get around it is going to be problematic. The "one bar repeat" staff style is spaced as if the measure is a whole note or rest, even if there are 128 128th notes hidden underneath it. Slash notation should work the same way (except behave as if the shashes were perhaps quarter notes).


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Derrek
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   Posted 12/18/2011 7:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
One-bar repeat is a measure symbol, though, whereas the slashes are beat oriented. No doubt Sibelius just reads one's mind and does everything automatically. :-)


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Motet
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   Posted 12/18/2011 9:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have no idea what Sibelius does.

Do you think the image attached to the first posting is a good thing?

As to your score argument, is the attached ever desirable? If not, why not have the default spacing do the right thing, rather than resorting to tricks?


Finale 2011b, 2005b, TGTools
Finale 2012 demo
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Post Edited (Motet) : 12/18/2011 7:59:34 PM (GMT-6)


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Derrek
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   Posted 12/19/2011 12:37 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How hard is it to apply respace to your measure? Why not automatically apply Band-in-a-Box to harmonize whatever you write in the top staff? Finale gives me the choice, and I'm happy it does. Choosing slashes for Violin I in a quartet is hardly a standard practice.

Yes, if MM eventually gives you an program or document option to automatically respace your score as you wish, fine. I don't see that as a big priority. (Better to fix the percussion system and allow users to resize Score Manager.)


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Motet
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   Posted 12/19/2011 2:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The quartet was just an example which was easy to set up with the document wizard. Feel free to substitute appropriate labels.

Maybe I'm just being ignorant here. Can you show an example of where using the hidden notes for spacing is desirable? Otherwise, I don't see why what I want should be an option. To me, it just seems like an oversight. I agree with you that there are more pressing problems, though--many, many more.


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Dunker
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   Posted 1/10/2012 3:02 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Since I updated to Finale 2012a it looks worse than ever! See an example in attached image + Finale 2012a-file...
I have contacted MM support for some time but they can not help me.

- Notes below the slashes is ONLY in layer 4.
- Notes in layer 4 is NOT included in music spacing (Document Options> Layers)
- I don't use Fit Measures.
- I have to use the Note Spacing, because I both have notes visible (layer 1) and slashes in the same document.


Tomas Dunker - Finale 2.2 > Finale 2012a, Win7, 8GB RAM, CPU Intel i5


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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 1/10/2012 3:31 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dunker said...
Since I updated to Finale 2012a it looks worse than ever! See an example in attached image + Finale 2012a-file.


There are old note spacing charts available in this document (look at measure 2 for example). Applying Beat Spacing once in the region to clear the old beat charts fixes it for me. Then you should be able to apply beat spacing again?

I'm on Fin2012 though, not Fin2012a.


Jari Williamsson

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Dunker
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   Posted 1/10/2012 3:55 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jari, you wrote: "old note spacing charts in this document".
Where do they come from? I made a new document with the Setup Wizard!

You also wrote: "look at measure 2 for example".
Notes below the slashes is in layer 4 and NOT included in music spacing!


Tomas Dunker - Finale 2.2 > Finale 2012a, Win7, 8GB RAM, CPU Intel i5

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