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MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Sibelius UK closure is confirmed – killed by US owners on the 4th of July  Forum Quick Jump
 
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NickG
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   Posted 7/6/2012 1:56 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hope this never happens to Finale!!!...makes me sick.

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/07/sibelius-uk-closure-is-confirmed-killed-by-us-owners-on-the-4th-of-july.html


NickG
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Zuill
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   Posted 7/6/2012 2:14 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The question is: if Sibelius is valuable, and someone with good business sense thinks so, it can be bought. Why hasn't that happened? It's been done once, and could happen again.

Zuill


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Bill Reed
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   Posted 7/6/2012 2:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's not that it's for sale; they're just farming the programing work out to the 3rd world...


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Wlgold
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   Posted 7/6/2012 2:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's probably not going to affect most of their users (except that Customer Service Reps may be speaking with a Ukrainian accent, if they aren't already). However, with all the negative publicity, it might be an opportunity for MM to pick up a little market share.


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Zuill
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   Posted 7/6/2012 2:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I wasn't implying that it was for sale. I meant that someone could make an offer, buy it, and not farm the work out (keep it as is).

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed)
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Jonathon A.
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   Posted 7/6/2012 3:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
I wasn't implying that it was for sale. I meant that someone could make an offer, buy it, and not farm the work out (keep it as is).

Zuill


The programming already takes place in Ukraine and did for Sibelius 7. But the product management has been in the UK all along. Avid has stated that they are committed to Sibelius. So I doubt they would be entertaining offers to purchase it. As much as Sibelius users wish that were not the case.
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Bill Reed
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   Posted 7/6/2012 3:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Perhaps the (ex) product management team could get financial backing, launch a new notation product, and steal all thier old customers away from Avid.


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Zuill
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   Posted 7/6/2012 3:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
They could call the new product Finale.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
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Bill Reed
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   Posted 7/6/2012 3:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Or Sibnale


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Zuill
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   Posted 7/6/2012 3:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Finelius?

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed)
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Bill Reed
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   Posted 7/6/2012 3:26 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
yeah, I was just thinking that would be better


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Vaughan
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   Posted 7/6/2012 3:28 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I like Finalius better.


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Saffron
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   Posted 7/6/2012 3:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
IF this marks the beginning of the end for Sibelius as a serious player in the notation market, we are all in for a VERY bad time.

NOTHING quite drives the likes of the Finale development team, than a chunk of plausible competition.

This feels like a nail in the coffin of computer-based music notation. And THAT is really BAD.

Brian


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Bill Reed
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   Posted 7/6/2012 4:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Very true. But this isn't happening because Sibelius isn't a viable product, but because Avid is an incredibly poorly run compnay.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Avid-Technology-Reviews-E2291.htm

 


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Post Edited (Bill Reed) : 7/6/2012 3:27:25 PM (GMT-5)

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ttw
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   Posted 7/6/2012 4:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
Finelius?

Zuill

Finelius
Finelii
Finelio
Finelium
Finelio
 
Finelii
Fineliorum
Fineliis
Finelios
Fineliis


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Zuill
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   Posted 7/6/2012 4:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Now I can't get the picture of my High School Latin teacher out of my mind. Thanks!

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed)
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David Gaines
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   Posted 7/6/2012 6:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting comment from the UK on the original story at ArtsJournal:

This news has opened the gates for Finale to become the preferred scorewriter in academia the world over. It’s already started in my own university who are now planning to switch.

And don't forget that MakeMusic, Inc. is a profit-driven, publically traded corporation that is, ultimately, no different from any other profit-driven, publically traded corporation. Something similar might happen to Finale one day. Who knows? There are a couple of open source music notation programs out there now of which people seem to think highly. That might be where this field is headed, as it is with word processing, spreadsheets, and document creation in general, not to mention encyclopedias. :)

dg


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Saffron
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   Posted 7/6/2012 6:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
David Gaines said...
Interesting comment from the UK on the original story at ArtsJournal:

This news has opened the gates for Finale to become the preferred scorewriter in academia the world over. It’s already started in my own university who are now planning to switch.

And don't forget that MakeMusic, Inc. is a profit-driven, publically traded corporation that is, ultimately, no different from any other profit-driven, publically traded corporation. Something similar might happen to Finale one day. Who knows? There are a couple of open source music notation programs out there now of which people seem to think highly. That might be where this field is headed, as it is with word processing, spreadsheets, and document creation in general, not to mention encyclopedias. :)

dg

Indeed ... and thank heavens I've stuck with a stable version that has worked for me for around 8 years already, and shows no sign of packing up anytime soon!

Brian


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BopEuph
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   Posted 7/7/2012 1:50 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It seems Avid has put a bunch of things on the chopping block. Found this thread:

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26692


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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 7/7/2012 4:25 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
David Gaines said...
And don't forget that MakeMusic, Inc. is a profit-driven, publically traded corporation that is, ultimately, no different from any other profit-driven, publically traded corporation. Something similar might happen to Finale one day. Who knows? There are a couple of open source music notation programs out there now of which people seem to think highly. That might be where this field is headed, as it is with word processing, spreadsheets, and document creation in general, not to mention encyclopedias. :)


I think MakeMusic learned lots from what happened in the company 10+ years ago.

open Source software isn't yet an option for high-end publishing. Same situation for music notation as for DTP as for image editors. However, MuseScore is an excellent alternative in some fields, such as schools with a tight budget, and for Linux systems.


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Jari Williamsson
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   Posted 7/7/2012 4:35 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wlgold said...
It's probably not going to affect most of their users (except that Customer Service Reps may be speaking with a Ukrainian accent, if they aren't already).


If Daniel leaves, it's going to be a huge difference for most users. He's everywhere regarding Sib blogs, issues, forum discussions, support and development. He's even contacted me in the past, although I am not a Sib user.


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Dr. Wiggy
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   Posted 7/7/2012 5:19 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
David Gaines said...
There are a couple of open source music notation programs out there now of which people seem to think highly.

Probably the same people who think you can use Word to design a book or submit a press-ready advert.

Don't get me wrong: I have infinite respect for the people who do spend hours of their free time writing code for open source projects. However, music notation is a VERY difficult task. So much so that full-time professional software (of any brand) still can't do it to everyone's satisfaction despite millions of dollar-man-years spent on it. The open source projects I've seen can do some things very well, but I haven't seen any that can cope with the complexity of a Liszt piano score, let alone Maxwell-Davies, or allow modifications for "finesse".

And there are plenty of abandoned open-source music notation projects. Just because it's open, doesn't mean that anyone WILL pick it up and continue it.

When Apple Macs brought DTP to the masses, everyone thought that the software would do everything: they didn't need to employ a designer. Just use Zapf Chancery in Block Capitals and slap a rounded box with a drop shadow over everything! Now we have many software packages which allow us to do whatever our heart desires -- create audio, write notation, make films, render 3D, layout a book, etc, etc. But owning InDesign does not make us William Morris. Using iMovie does not make us Scorsese.

Music engraving is a skill -- and a separate one from being skilled with Finale or Sibelius. (Lord knows my first efforts with MusicProse back in the 90s were awful.) While learning about engraving will stand you in good stead whatever software you use, the investment of time in learning a product is significant, if you are to get the results you want.

People have been endlessly predicting the death of MakeMusic on this forum for years, and if that happened I would be profoundly upset from the investment I have made in learning how to use it. If I were a Sibelius user, I would be wondering about my investment in learning the product and whether that should be written off.


"This is me helping."

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Saffron
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   Posted 7/7/2012 6:10 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
People have been endlessly predicting the death of MakeMusic on this forum for years, and if that happened I would be profoundly upset from the investment I have made in learning how to use it. If I were a Sibelius user, I would be wondering about my investment in learning the product and whether that should be written off.

Even if all further commercial development of Sibelius stops today, the copies of Sib 7 that people own will continue working an indefinite time into the future. Ditto if MakeMusic folded, or decided to drop Finale to concentrate all its efforts on SmartMusic and the education market. It doesn't mean that the software we are running will cease to operate.

Sure, until someone buys the spoils, there may be no further improvements or developments - but provided the stuff we already have on our PCs and Macs works correctly, and creates the results we have all been happy with so far, then really there is no massive disaster here - just a sadness that next year's version might not come out after all.

The one thing that DOES bother me is the COPY PROTECTION issue

Sibelius (like Finale) is "authorised"/locked onto a specific computer. What will happen when that machine needs to be upgraded, but Sibelius (or, heaven forbid, one day, Finale) is no longer supported by anyone?

At the very least, one would hope that the makers would either release one final, no-authorisation-needed version - or at the very least, make the authorisation algorithm public.

Brian


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Nev
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   Posted 7/7/2012 5:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I find this quite interesting considering I have just come away from the dare I say BiaB forum where it was announced that Avid have recently sold off M.Audio to InMusic. Most M.Audio users seem quite happy about the deal as support while under Avid was nearly none existent.
However I also found that a few Garritan owners were finding difficulty with odd bits to do with their accounts on Garritan were either missing or wrong since Make Music bought Garritan.
Interesting times eh?


Finale print music 2004. Finale 2006c Notepad 2007. Finale 2012, and other notation programs. XP sp3 home. Windows 7 Professional. Cornet player, and sometime guitar strummer. location- Lancashire, UK.

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Saffron
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   Posted 7/7/2012 5:37 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nev said...
I find this quite interesting considering I have just come away from the dare I say BiaB forum where it was announced that Avid have recently sold off M.Audio to InMusic. Most M.Audio users seem quite happy about the deal as support while under Avid was nearly none existent.
However I also found that a few Garritan owners were finding difficulty with odd bits to do with their accounts on Garritan were either missing or wrong since Make Music bought Garritan.
Interesting times eh?

Yep, business is business ... the sole mission is to make money for the shareholders. And once in a while, us mere users get a few crumbs thrown our way in the form of a product update. If we're lucky.

Brian


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