Finale SmartMusic
  Home | Log In | Register | Search | Help
   
MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > (No Subject)
 
Forum Quick Jump
 
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Ankarblom
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to AnkarblomAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 11
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 5:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi!

I'm trying to get to know Finale 2012a, Win7 (Finale-user since 3.0):


I'm sending all my Strings (Vln. 1, Vln. 2 etc) to the same external playback device via MIDI, on the same MIDI-channel for playback on a 'string-section' sound.

Although the strings-staves have different Instruments assigned to them in the Score Manager I cannot use different, for example, dynamics on different staves *); they ALL play back with same velocity, which of course is unsatisfying. This seems to me to be due to the face that all strings-Instruments play on the same MIDI-channel. How do I go around that?

'Instruments' seems to bee 'slaves' to midi-channels first to Instruments, which was not the case in earlier versions.

I don't wanna (don't have the time to) change my complete outboard setup...

This behaviour also of course applies to other parts od the orchestral score. All Flute staves play on the same Flute-sound in my setup (to save memory-space) etc , and if, say, Flute 3 goes to Piccolo, Flute 1&2 does the same....... Is, simply, doesn't work...

Please give me a hint anyone? Many thanks in advance!

/KALLE

*) For example I wan't Violin I to play Forte, but the rest of strings mezzoforte.
Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 5:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Make sure each instrument is on a different channel.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Back to Top

Ankarblom
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to AnkarblomAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 11
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 5:39 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
But I Want To send them to THE SAME channel.

Because that's were my strings-sound is located in my setup.
Back to Top

Motet
Isorhythmic



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MotetAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 5:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If you want the three flutes to play on different channels, I think you need to define a different instrument for each, even though they might in turn play the same sound. In the Instrument window, in each row is a pull-down list for which instrument is used by each staff. There is a "New" choice on that pull-down list.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP

Back to Top

Motet
Isorhythmic



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MotetAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 5:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Slip. A volume change is sent to a channel, so you can't have different volumes on the same channel.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP

Back to Top

Ankarblom
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to AnkarblomAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 11
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 5:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you Motet!

I've tryed using different Instruments.

This doesn't seem to matter as long as the Instruments play on/share the same MIDI-channel.

In the file I tried to work on all, for example, strings staves are assigned to different Instruments, but the do send to the same MIDI-channel and that's were my problem seem to start.

Looking like this;

Stave Instrument MIDI-channel
Violin 1 Violin 1 11
Violin 2 Violin 2 11
Viola Viola 11
Cello Cello 11
Contrabass Contrabass 11
Back to Top

Ankarblom
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to AnkarblomAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 11
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 5:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I should point out that I don't use Human Playback in my work.
So Continous Data, like Volume changes etc is not an issue in this matter
Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 5:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As both Motet and Zuill have pointed out: you cannot have different dynamics for different instruments that are sharing the same channel. One dynamic = one channel.


Finale 2012c with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Win XP/Pro, Intel Core 2 Quad, 4 GB RAM

Creative XFi Xtreme Music sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

Back to Top

Derrek
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to DerrekAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 2347
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 6:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It appears you have different names for your instruments, but (because you are assigning them all the same MIDI channel) you are not assigning them to different instrument sounds, only calling the same sound by different names.


Finale 2012 - Windows 7
GPO 4, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar X1 Producer)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 6:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've been using Finale since version 2002 and there has always been a one-to-one correspondence between dynamics and channels. Doesn't matter whether you are using HP or not. A "dynamic" is a midi signal and it goes to a channel, not to a staff. You have at least 128 channels available to you, so why not put each of your string sections on a different channel?


Finale 2012c with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Win XP/Pro, Intel Core 2 Quad, 4 GB RAM

Creative XFi Xtreme Music sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

Back to Top

Bill Reed
Registered Member



Click to send Bill Reed email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Bill ReedAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Feb 2001
Total Posts : 1203
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 6:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Depending on his MIDI interface, he may only have 16 channels...

But the chances are good that the Garritan instruments that come with Finale are way better then you external sound module.


Back to Finale 2011, Notion, Sonar

Win7 x64, 64GB RAM

M-Audio ProFire 2626

Kontakt, VSL VI, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos

A closet full of cables, cords, adaptors, etc. Let me know if you need anything

Back to Top

Motet
Isorhythmic



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MotetAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 12849
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 6:39 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Ankarblom,

This sort of thing:

 

Notice that the two clarinets are different "Instruments" and thus on different channels, but use the same GM program for playback.



Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP


Image Attachment :
Image Preview
instruments.png
  12KB (image/x-png)
This image has been viewed 259 time(s).
Back to Top

Ankarblom
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to AnkarblomAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 11
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 7:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sounds like a shall explane my setup & workings a bit more;

I use two instances of EWQL "Play"-engines outside Finale, but on the same computer as Finale is running on, wired through artificiall MIDI-cables (is that what those are called in english?) from Finale to the Play-engines via MIDI Out from Finale.

So the playback is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar superior to that from any Garritan divice and very much apprciated be my clients in gaming and the film industry and so on.

But; I push Finale so hard that it crashes like once every hour. Waiting for Finale to load a 3333 4331 13 Hp Pi Archi -score every time it hangs is NOT an option in my work.
Having the Plays running outside Finale I can be back working within 15 sek. of a hang.

BUT, the Play engines are pushing the computer to it's limits. Loading like THREE DIFFERENT Flute-sounds for 3 different Flute-staves is not an option. It would eat up the CPU instantly. __So therefore it's an aim of mine to keep the loaded sounds to a Minimum__.

Also note that I DON'T use Human Playback in my work. I don't have time to wait for it loading playback preferences for a large score every time I wanna check a passage, which is of course often. So Volume/Expression-data is Not something I work with, therefor the One channel - One dynamic, like Ron pointed out, have NOT been true in my way of work since 1994, since I only work with velocity & transpositions in my playback. It worked, pre Finale 2012, perfectly to have Horn 1 play velocity 120 and the remaining horns mf THOUGH they are sending to the same midi-channel, as long as it was different Instruments assaigned to the different horn-staves.

I understand my working with MIDI might be stone-age. BUT it enables me to use worldleading sounds in my playback and it's all very quick.

Up to Finale 2012 Instruments was 'king' over a MIDI-channel, but now, I guess, due to Human Playback considerations, Channels rule over Instruments.

I just wonder if I can work around it somehow, so I can keep my fantastic-sounding setup, and still use Finale 2012. I presently on 2010, where all this works just beatifully.

BUT, ***drum-roll***, if I load a pre-Fin2012 score into Fin2012 it plays back just as it would in an earlier version!!!....... :O . SO, that means Finale 2012 CAN work the way I would like it to, I just have to find the way...! :)

Thank you for all your input! I highly appreciate it! Keep it comin' !

/K
Back to Top

Ankarblom
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to AnkarblomAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 11
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 7:14 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I doubel-cheched again:

If I load an old document into Finale 2012a where, like in the example above, Horn 1 plays velocity 127 but Horn 2-3-4 plays say velocity 20; different instruments BUT sent to the same channel IT WORKS JUST FINE, like it would in an earlier Finale-version.

SO, what I'm looking for IS there under the hood in Finale 2012.... I just want to fina a way to have it work with Finales "Score Manager"
Back to Top

Steve G.
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Steve G.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 197
 
   Posted 10/8/2012 8:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There seems to be a little confusion here regarding velocity versus volume. Ankarblom refers only to velocity, no channel volume. Velocity should control the volume envelope for each individual note according to settings in the the Play engine, and if it doesn't that's weird.

Maybe there is something else at work, and if you could could post an old document and the new document someone can help figure out what's going on, if it is within Finale.


Macbook Pro 13-inch, Early 2011
Mac OS X Lion 10.7.4

Back to Top

Jari Williamsson
Registered Member

Click to send Jari Williamsson email.Click to visit Jari Williamsson's website.Send a Private Message to Jari WilliamssonAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 1998
Total Posts : 3246
 
   Posted 10/9/2012 11:11 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Are the velocities sent correctly if you set the instrument (to the left in the Score Manager) to "Blank Staff"?


Jari Williamsson

Windows XP, Pentium 4
2.40 GHz, 4 GB RAM

www.finaletips.nu - The Finale Productivity Tips site

Back to Top
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
   
Forum Information
Currently it is Thursday, June 24, 2021 12:17 PM (GMT -5)
There are a total of 403,820 posts in 58,165 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads