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James Cooper
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   Posted 11/8/2012 12:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have a score where Horn 1 and Horn 2 are on the same staff in 2 layers.
I want to create a linked part where Horn 1 is on the top staff and Horn 2 is on the bottom staff.

I see how to create separate Horn 1 and Horn 2 parts, but don't see how to get those 2 staves on the same page.


James Cooper
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Flint
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   Posted 11/8/2012 12:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't think you can do it. You need two staves if you want two staves on the part.

Personally, in my experience musicians hate two-stave parts. Give each person their own part.


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If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

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Derrek
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   Posted 11/8/2012 12:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Create a new combined Horn part in "Manage Parts" (Document menu). I agree that this will be unusual for the players.


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Gareth Green
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   Posted 11/8/2012 1:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Flint said...

Personally, in my experience musicians hate two-stave parts. Give each person their own part.
Derrek said...
I agree that this will be unusual for the players.
Unless of course it's in a Theatre pit ...


 
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Gareth Green
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   Posted 11/8/2012 1:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Derrek said...
Create a new combined Horn part in "Manage Parts" (Document menu).
I don't think that will work unless there are two staves in the score. To do what the OP is asking for, I believe it will be necessary to have both the single stave parts and the combined stave part in the score, then use Manage Parts to create the two stave part then hide the redundant staves in the score. I would like to be proved wrong, of course ...


 
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Zuill
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   Posted 11/8/2012 1:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Or, extract the one staff part, and explode it in the extracted part. This is the "old fashioned" way, but works. Linked parts is not the end-all of music engraving.

Zuill


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James Cooper
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   Posted 11/8/2012 1:29 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Theater pit it is. Looks like I have to create single staff Horn 1 and Horn 2 parts from the layered staff, hide them and then make the one I want from them. Right? Seems like a lot of work.


James Cooper
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Gareth Green
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   Posted 11/8/2012 1:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
James Cooper said...
Seems like a lot of work.

Shouldn't take that long; I assume you're familiar with the "Show Active Layer only" command? Create the two blank horn staves, then use the Selection tool, select the original horn stave, select layer 1, then hit "Show Active Layer only", copy and paste to Horn I, then select Layer 2, copy and paste to Horn II. For the sake of consistency you might then want to "Move contents of Layer 2 to Layer 1" in the Horn II stave, although it's not strictly necessary. It can avoid confusion later, though ...
 
No more than 45-50 seconds work, I would have thought.


 
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Zuill
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   Posted 11/8/2012 3:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The method can depend on how you have the staff set up. For example, if you have sections where both instruments are in unison, and you are only using one layer there, you have to then copy/paste those separately for the 2nd part. Also, for places where there are 2 notes but saharing a layer (where rhythms are the same), you would have to copy both parts to the other staff and then use one of the available plugins to process the parts (eliminate one part, but retain the other). So, it is not always as easy as one might want it to be.

Zuill


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Gareth Green
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   Posted 11/8/2012 4:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
The method can depend on how you have the staff set up. For example, if you have sections where both instruments are in unison, and you are only using one layer there, you have to then copy/paste those separately for the 2nd part. Also, for places where there are 2 notes but saharing a layer (where rhythms are the same), you would have to copy both parts to the other staff and then use one of the available plugins to process the parts (eliminate one part, but retain the other). So, it is not always as easy as one might want it to be.

Zuill

Well, yes, accepted, but I was inferring from the OP's original post ...
James Cooper said...
I have a score where Horn 1 and Horn 2 are on the same staff in 2 layers.
I want to create a linked part where Horn 1 is on the top staff and Horn 2 is on the bottom staff.

I see how to create separate Horn 1 and Horn 2 parts, but don't see how to get those 2 staves on the same page.

... that he had the horn parts consistently set up in two layers.


 
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Zuill
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   Posted 11/8/2012 4:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Got it. My comment was of a more general nature as dealing with linked parts often is complicated when there are parts where there are other than just 2 layers. For his situation, you are correct. Hopefully, things like expressions and other attachments are applied to both layers.

Zuill


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Gareth Green
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   Posted 11/8/2012 4:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
Got it. My comment was of a more general nature as dealing with linked parts often is complicated when there are parts where there are other than just 2 layers. For his situation, you are correct. Hopefully, things like expressions and other attachments are applied to both layers.

Zuill

True, setting up "voiced" linked parts is time-consuming and fiddly, although generally it only has to be done once, and can then be saved as a template if desired. The only real "no-no" is combining layers and chords in the same measure.


 
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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 11/8/2012 5:16 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It can be done "with a little help from my friend" the Mirror Tool.

See the attached Finale 2012 document.

Peter


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Zuill
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   Posted 11/8/2012 5:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I avoid the Mirror Tool at all costs. For a simple demo, it's okay. But for anything complicated, it can be daunting, if impossible. Especially when it comes to editing of all the other stuff.

Zuill


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Motet
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   Posted 11/9/2012 4:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'll make the same comment I always do: write the parts on separate staves in the Finale score, and combine them on a separate staff ("implode") at the end just for the purpose of the conductor's score. Create the conductor's score as a "part." Not only can you then get your two-stave horn part, but it's much easier not to have to deal with layers when you're inputting your music.


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Post Edited (Motet) : 11/9/2012 2:46:39 PM (GMT-6)

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James Cooper
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   Posted 11/10/2012 9:05 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It seems to me that this method would only work if your score page size is the same as your part page size, and they often are not.


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Zuill
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   Posted 11/10/2012 11:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A linked part can have a different page size and format than other parts, or from the score.

Zuill


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Gareth Green
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   Posted 11/10/2012 12:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
write the parts on separate staves in the Finale score, and combine them on a separate staff ("implode") at the end just for the purpose of the conductor's score.
I may be misunderstanding, but surely this will only work if the two parts are in exact rhythmic unison throughout? The "implode" function cannot handle independent rhythms, as far as I am aware.
 


 
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Zuill
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   Posted 11/10/2012 12:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If the notes are in 2 different layers in measures where they rhythms are different, then implode works fine.

Zuill


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Gareth Green
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   Posted 11/10/2012 1:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
If the notes are in 2 different layers in measures where they rhythms are different, then implode works fine.

Zuill

So it does; I never knew that! That might have saved me a few hours work in the past mad . Has it always worked like that?


 
Gareth J. Green
 
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