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Panamerican
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Total Posts : 15
 
   Posted 3/15/2014 10:38 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 build 7601
x 64-based
Intel (R) Core (TM) 2 Quad CPU Q8400 @ 2.66 ghz, 2670 Mhz, 4 main processors, 4 logical processors
8.00 GB RAM
Finale Version: 2012c.r13
Sound Card: M-Audio Delta 1010LT
Actual Sound Card Driver: ASIO4ALL 2.10 English
Aria Player: v1.620
Aria Engine: v1.620

Hi Folks!
Garritan IO playbacks too quietly (almost no sound) when applied to an old finale file. Does anybody know if there is any way to successfully apply new Garritan Instant Orchestra Sounds (GIO) to old finale 2012 files?
I recently purchased Finale 2014 (upgraded from 2012) and I also purchased Garritan Instant Orchestra. I had some horrible playback freezes with finale 2014 so currently I’m still using finale 2012. I will face/denounce the finale 2014 playback freezes later and in a different post. I have been using Finale and Garritan sounds for years (Finale since 1993) with almost no trouble and I believe I have an excellent system with all requirements as they should be, so for now I will assume the Finale 2014 playback problems have nothing to do with my system or any mistake on my part during installation.
Anyway, I discovered that if I use old orchestra finale 2012 files and try to replace the Garritan Personal Orchestra (GPO4) sounds with the new GIO sounds, the new GIO sounds playback too quietly (almost imperceptible). The same happens if I open a new document and paste the old staves unto the new document.
But I also discovered that if I open a new file and start composing from scratch, GIO sounds playback just fine (with normal volume) and the GIO sounds get along with GPO4 sounds combined.
It is a bit frustrating that I can’t convert my old orchestral pieces and apply my new GIO sounds to them. Re-writing them from scratch would take soooo long! I'm still happy with the new GIO sounds of course :), and finale and garritan are both a major blessing in my life as a composer.


Intel(R) Core (TM)2 Quad CPU 2.67 GHz
RAM: 4 GB OS: Windows 7 Home Premium (64bits)
Finale 2010
Panama



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THE GIRL WITH THE FLAXEN HAIR ORCH 2012c.mus   89KB (application/octet-stream)
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Panamerican
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   Posted 3/15/2014 10:42 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Please ignore the signature details below my post, it is outdated (i will update them soon). My system details in top of my post are the actual ones.


Intel(R) Core (TM)2 Quad CPU 2.67 GHz
RAM: 4 GB OS: Windows 7 Home Premium (64bits)
Finale 2010
Panama

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Ron.
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   Posted 3/15/2014 10:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am a bit bewildered but this, but can point out that I use GPO4 and GIO back and forth on F2014 and F2012 with no discernible difference between them. This is the first time I have heard that there is a "new" GIO expressly for F2014. In fact, I use Finale 2009, 2010, 2012, and 2014, as well as PrintMusic 2011 with one set of Garritan files (though GIO does not work with F2009).

Having said that I tried your file and am even more bewildered. Everything looks like it should work, but, obviously, as you have pointed out, it doesn't. I'll tinker some more and if I find anything I'll let you know.


Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

Post Edited (Ron.) : 3/15/2014 10:55:19 PM (GMT-5)

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Ron.
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   Posted 3/15/2014 11:01 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Success. I found that if I reset the "mod" wheel in the Aria player (by jogging it to its highest setting), sound comes blasting out where previously I could hear nothing. It seems that it needs a bit of a poke to wake things up..


Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

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Panamerican
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   Posted 3/15/2014 11:44 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dear Ron,

Thank you so much for your quick answer Sir!

I guess I used a misleading phrase when saying "new GIO" sounds". I meant to imply that the GIO sounds are new to me... as opposed to other libraries that I have been using for years already (like Garritan Personal Orchestra 4). You are correct; there is no new GIO expressly for finale 2014 so far.

If you'd like, I could also post my orchestral arrangement of Debussy´s "The Girl with the Flaxen Hair" with the GPO4 sounds, so you can see that It playbacks just fine with those sounds, and maybe you could compare the settings and the behaviour of both files.

I have also sent this case to finale support, but of course I'll be looking forward for any help or insight you (or any other person) could give me on this case.

I have also noticed that I get a few small pops (crackling sounds) once in a while during playback, using any sound libraries, and tha hasnt happened to me in a long time. That is a bit strange because I just recently installed a new hard disk and reinstalled all my software; but I'm using the same proccesor and the same RAM and the same motherboard and the same soundcard.

I'm also using a newer version of the ASIO4all driver than i had before (i recently downloaded ASIO4ALL 2.10) with my DELTA 1010LT soundcard, although there are two newer ASIO4all drivers that I havent tried yet (ASIO4ALL 2.11 BETA1 & ASIO4ALL BETA 2). I have discovered these drivers are the right ones for my DELTA 1010LT soundcard, because if i dont use them things will get worse during finale playback.

Thank you so much again!


Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 build 7601
x 64-based
Intel (R) Core (TM) 2 Quad CPU Q8400 @ 2.66 ghz, 2670 Mhz, 4 main processors, 4 logical processors
8.00 GB RAM
Finale Version: 2012c.r13
Sound Card: M-Audio Delta 1010LT
Actual Sound Card Driver: ASIO4ALL 2.10 English
Aria Player: v1.620
Aria Engine: v1.620

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Panamerican
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   Posted 3/15/2014 11:49 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ok.. I tried raising the modualtion wheel also before, but when i hit playback it goes down again on its own. I'll try it again anyway...although it would seem that raising the mod wheel on all instruments would be a bit tiring...(i have around sixteen instruments in that file)


Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 build 7601
x 64-based
Intel (R) Core (TM) 2 Quad CPU Q8400 @ 2.66 ghz, 2670 Mhz, 4 main processors, 4 logical processors
8.00 GB RAM
Finale Version: 2012c.r13
Sound Card: M-Audio Delta 1010LT
Actual Sound Card Driver: ASIO4ALL 2.10 English
Aria Player: v1.620
Aria Engine: v1.620

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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 3/16/2014 8:45 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You don't have to post a file with GPO4 instruments. I checked that myself and they do play back just fine. The mod wheel thing works only as long as you're in the Aria player; as soon as you revert to the score, things go back to a bare whisper. This is extremely odd and I am stumped. I think you'll have to wait and see what support has to say on this one.


Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

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Panamerican
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   Posted 3/16/2014 12:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I suspect GIO is not yet meant to be used to replace GPO4 sounds on an older file.

Thank you so much Sir, lets wait and see what support will say. If the problem is solved, I will post the solution here.


Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 build 7601
x 64-based
Intel (R) Core (TM) 2 Quad CPU Q8400 @ 2.66 ghz, 2670 Mhz, 4 main processors, 4 logical processors
8.00 GB RAM

Finale 2014
Finale 2012c.r13
Garritan Personal Orchestra 4
Garritan Jazz and Big Band 3
Garritan World Instruments
Garritan Steinway Basic
Garritan Instant Orchestra

Sound Card: M-Audio Delta 1010LT
Actual Sound Card Driver: ASIO4ALL 2.10 English
Aria Player: v1.620
Aria Engine: v1.620

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Jim Williams
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   Posted 3/17/2014 5:38 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I looked at several of the dynamics and note that they are defined as velocity values, but you have Human Playback on.
This may be at the root of the problem.

EDIT: It is the problem. Setting the ppp and pp playback definitions to "none" yields sound.
This is likely to be a problem with winds, since velocity does NOT control volume, but controls initial attack.

Since the harp is plucked, the initial mp defined as velocity in that staff is not problematic. But resetting playback definition
for the mp mark to "none" also yields sound.

If yu are using any kind of Human Playback, dynamics themselves should not be defined for playback.
In your HP preferences, you have the correct setting: CC1 for volume and velocity for attack for sustaining instruments.

Jim


WinFin 2012, 2014, Core-i7 laptop, 16 gB RAM, Win 8 pro w/Media Center
Core 2 duo laptop, Windows 7 Enterprise
iPad 3 w/Zagg Folio
Miraphone 5050 and Yamaha 321 Euphoniums
Yamaha 621 Baritone Horn, Holton 58 Bass Trumpet,
blue pBone.

Post Edited (Jim Williams) : 3/17/2014 5:50:06 PM (GMT-5)

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Bill Reed
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   Posted 3/17/2014 5:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The Delta has it's own ASIO driver. Why are you using ASIO4ALL ?


Finale 2014 (Fingers Crossed), Notion 4, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5

Win8 x64, 32GB RAM

M-Audio ProFire 2626

Kontakt, VSL, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos

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Panamerican
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   Posted 3/17/2014 9:32 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jim... thank you for the advice, but I just set all the document dynamics playback definitions to "none" as you said (in my file) and it didn't work for me. The sound is still way too quiet, except for the harp.

Also, I believe dynamics come with playback definition set to "key velocity" by default. Does it mean that everytime I create a new file and wished to use human playback I would have to go ahead and set each dynamic playback definition to "none" one by one?

I also tried turning human playback off to see if that would change anything, but it doesn't. The problem is still there.


Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 build 7601
x 64-based
Intel (R) Core (TM) 2 Quad CPU Q8400 @ 2.66 ghz, 2670 Mhz, 4 main processors, 4 logical processors
8.00 GB RAM

Finale 2014
Finale 2012c.r13
Garritan Personal Orchestra 4
Garritan Jazz and Big Band 3
Garritan World Instruments
Garritan Steinway Basic
Garritan Instant Orchestra

Sound Card: M-Audio Delta 1010LT
Actual Sound Card Driver: ASIO4ALL 2.10 English
Aria Player: v1.620
Aria Engine: v1.620

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Panamerican
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   Posted 3/17/2014 9:39 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bill, years ago I updated my finale (not sure which version now... maybe finale 2008) and I found out I was only getting sound on the left channel during playback (using finale playback along with my DELTA 1010LT. I did some google search on that bug, and found a site explaining that the DELTA 1010LT driver that comes with the DELTA itself doesnt work well with Finale... and they recommended using the ASIO4ALL driver instead, and the problem would go away. I did what they said, and it worked. Now I keep using the ASIO4all driver and it always works just fine with every new version of finale I've been getting.


Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 build 7601
x 64-based
Intel (R) Core (TM) 2 Quad CPU Q8400 @ 2.66 ghz, 2670 Mhz, 4 main processors, 4 logical processors
8.00 GB RAM

Finale 2014
Finale 2012c.r13
Garritan Personal Orchestra 4
Garritan Jazz and Big Band 3
Garritan World Instruments
Garritan Steinway Basic
Garritan Instant Orchestra

Sound Card: M-Audio Delta 1010LT
Actual Sound Card Driver: ASIO4ALL 2.10 English
Aria Player: v1.620
Aria Engine: v1.620

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Bill Reed
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   Posted 3/18/2014 7:29 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I believe that MM finally fixed that bug in 2012. ASIO4ALL is more something to use as a last resort. The manufacturer supplied driver is always to be preferred.


Finale 2014 (Fingers Crossed), Notion 4, Overture 4, Cubase 7.5

Win8 x64, 32GB RAM

M-Audio ProFire 2626

Kontakt, VSL, VE Pro, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos

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Panamerican
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   Posted 3/18/2014 11:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you Bill, I will try and download the newest DELTA 1010LT driver then. :)


Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 build 7601
x 64-based
Intel (R) Core (TM) 2 Quad CPU Q8400 @ 2.66 ghz, 2670 Mhz, 4 main processors, 4 logical processors
8.00 GB RAM

Finale 2014
Finale 2012c.r13
Garritan Personal Orchestra 4
Garritan Jazz and Big Band 3
Garritan World Instruments
Garritan Steinway Basic
Garritan Instant Orchestra

Sound Card: M-Audio Delta 1010LT
Actual Sound Card Driver: ASIO4ALL 2.10 English
Aria Player: v1.620
Aria Engine: v1.620

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 3/19/2014 12:40 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jim Williams said...
If you are using any kind of Human Playback, dynamics themselves should not be defined for playback.
In your HP preferences, you have the correct setting: CC1 for volume and velocity for attack for sustaining instruments.

Jim


I have my doubts about this.

I set the velocity values of my dynamics to levels that I like (pp=20, p=30, mp=45, etc...), and only use playback with HP on. My dynamics always work correctly.
Is this an issue with Finale 2014?

HP will translate whatever value you have assigned for dynamics to the correct controller for volume of that instrument.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) 2010, 2011, 2012b installed
Win XP
basically ALL Garritan sounds, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Derrek
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   Posted 3/19/2014 11:46 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michel, I sometimes do what you do especially to create volumes between the standard Finale settings (piu f settings, for example) and as in your case, it has always worked for me, even under HP.


Finale 2014 - Windows 7
GPO 4, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar X3 Producer)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 3/19/2014 12:03 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michel, nothing has changed in Finale 2014 in that regard. Like you, I change the values of dynamics to something I feel is more appropriate. There is definitely something very strange with the file that was originally posted and I can't figure it out.


Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 3/19/2014 12:48 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
what I was questioning was Jim's assertion that dynamics should not be defined for playback if used with HP.
to the best of my knowledge, HP won't react to dynamic markings if they are NOT defined for playback.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) 2010, 2011, 2012b installed
Win XP
basically ALL Garritan sounds, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/19/2014 2:28 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
2014 does have some issues when interpreting MIDI data. Adjusting the velocity of notes is not recognized by HP in Layer 1. Only Layers2-4 will. Also, ornaments are only reconized by Layer 1. If you have ornaments in Layers 2-4, they are ingored. As far as dynamics, I believe the playback bug I mentioned is connected. So, the velocity levels of the expressions are only recognized in Layers 2-4. With Layer 1, they have no effect, unless, in HP preferences, you set Velocity to NO HP effect. If you choose Incorporate, Layer 1 expressions are useless.

This is a major problem with 2014, and I believe MakeMusic takes it seriously.

Zuill

P.S.: I believe the above mentioned Velocity issue is confied to VST. I think MIDI still works properly.


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014a now.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 3/19/2014 2:36 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If what you say is correct, Zuill, then why do dynamics work normally for me in layer 1 in Finale 2014, yet in the file posted they don't?


Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/19/2014 2:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Not sure. Would you post a sample for me?

Zuill

P.S.: The only setting under MIDI HP Preferences that allow velocity expressions to have any effect is by setting Velocity to NO HP Effect. See what your setting is. This was not MakeMusic's intention. They have acknowledged the bug and plan to fix it.

P.P.S.: Looks like VST with Softsynth is Okay. Just GIfF that Velocity dynamics don't work. Maybe they do with GPO.


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014a now.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 3/19/2014 4:01:10 PM (GMT-5)

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Jim Williams
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   Posted 3/19/2014 3:59 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I know this:
1. When I opened the OP's file, only the harp sounded. Note that the dynamics were defined in terms of velocity in the OP's file and that harp uses velocity by default for volume.
2. When I "undefined" the dynamics in the OP's file, they played back with correct relative loudness on the sustaining instruments (which use modwheel by default for dynamics).

I don't know this, because I didn't dump the file into a sequencer:
1. Are there any random controller messages in the file that could be messing things up.

BTW: Can any 2014 user get a "2nd time only" instruction to behave? If so will it behave if you use CC1 modwheel instead of CC7 volume???


WinFin 2012, 2014, Core-i7 laptop, 16 gB RAM, Win 8 pro w/Media Center
Core 2 duo laptop, Windows 7 Enterprise
iPad 3 w/Zagg Folio
Miraphone 5050 and Yamaha 321 Euphoniums
Yamaha 621 Baritone Horn, Holton 58 Bass Trumpet,
blue pBone.

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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 3/19/2014 4:49 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Isn't all this Finale 2014 talk a red herring? The file in question is a Finale 2012 file.

BTW, I just set up a new document and loaded Instant Orchestra samples--and most of them do not play back loudly enough to be heard. I tried this in both Finale 2012 and Finale 2014. I checked that I have setup everything as per MM's instructions for moving downloaded support files to their proper locations. I've opened a support case.


Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

Post Edited (Ron.) : 3/19/2014 5:06:31 PM (GMT-5)

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 3/19/2014 5:08 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I only asked since it came up earlier in the thread. I do believe those who are thinking about moving from 2012 to 2014 are interested in any changes. The HP playback bugs are a pretty big deal. When I sent in my report, I said to MM that it is no big deal unless one is interested in playback. They, of course, replied that playback is important.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014a now.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Ron.
Composer



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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 3/19/2014 6:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Strange. Support advised me to reinstall GIO. I did and now everything plays back as it should--which is weird because, though I rarely touch GIO, I certainly have not deleted any files--which is what support said the problem was. However, that does not fix the poster's problem, as I still cannot hear his GIO instruments.

Panamerican: have you sent your file to MM support?


Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

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