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Marius
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   Posted 4/1/2014 7:18 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you, guys, to all of you for your opinions. They are very important to me.
Concerning the topic, I just thought it would be easier to study a score written in Finale as one can change tonality with one click, analyze the instrumentation and hear parts of it within the program and learn easier whatever he(she) needs to learn.
With a regular score all these are not possible.
But, if even that means breaking the law, i understand. I ordered a regular score.
Thousands thanks again!


Finale 2012a
Windows 7 Computer
Montreal

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 3/31/2014 11:55 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike Rosen said...
It's not that the copyright is at issue; rather, it's one of law keeping up with technology. Since we've gone from the basement full of monks to the desktop copier, changes have not kept pace. Surely, better minds than mine could come up with a method of generating clean, unmarked scores to purchasers while still protecting the investment.

You mean, "If they can put a man on the moon..."? It's a hard problem, and I suspect there is no technological fix.


Of course a digital or Finale copy is better. But that needs to be under the control of the copyright holder; certainly not traded on a BBS on the web! I'm sure the distributors of those musicals Brian speaks of would love to be able to just email files when they rent something out rather than printing and shipping paper copies and dealing with the hassles of getting them shipped back, erasing markings, dealing with spilled coffee, etc. But to do so would be to make copying trivial, so they are wise not to.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
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   Posted 3/31/2014 11:22 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
Wishful thinking!

Copyright is an important issue, certainly relevant here, and worth emphasizing whenever it's raised.



Thank you Motet, copyright law(s) are a very important issue for us to be cognizant of. Educational use of copyrighted material has some leeway for us that teach.....which is enough for me.


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014a TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current)
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Ron.
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   Posted 3/31/2014 11:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ebony Ivory said...
Ron. said...
Out of curiosity, I just Googled "Cabaret Score" and got dozens of hits of places you can download it from. What difference does it make what format it is in as long as you can read it? I'd rather have a good printed (or pdf) copy than a Finale copy any day of the week.

Now with so many musicals being typeset afresh in Finale, I would go the other way and say I would LOVE to be sent the Finale version rather than a dirty, pencilmark-filled paper score or even a PDF (the latter are sometimes offered to professional companies). I have just had to transpose one number in a forthcoming production, from F back to its original key of Eb, and to say it was a boring job copying the full score, page by page, staff by staff, just so I could eventually change the key and extract new parts, would be understatement of the year. It would have saved me over a day just to load up the existing Finale source and transpose it.

Brian


The only pre-existing works I would use are old folk songs--and in those cases I'd rather have a clean copy and importing it into Finale is irrelevant because of the way I'd use it. Otherwise, I download scores to study them, not to copy or amend them. I do hear what you are saying though and understand that a Finale copy would save an arranger a lot of work.


Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 3/31/2014 10:56 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's not that the copyright is at issue; rather, it's one of law keeping up with technology. Since we've gone from the basement full of monks to the desktop copier, changes have not kept pace. Surely, better minds than mine could come up with a method of generating clean, unmarked scores to purchasers while still protecting the investment.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014a on Mac 10.9.1
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 3/31/2014 10:49 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron. said...
Out of curiosity, I just Googled "Cabaret Score" and got dozens of hits of places you can download it from. What difference does it make what format it is in as long as you can read it? I'd rather have a good printed (or pdf) copy than a Finale copy any day of the week.

Now with so many musicals being typeset afresh in Finale, I would go the other way and say I would LOVE to be sent the Finale version rather than a dirty, pencilmark-filled paper score or even a PDF (the latter are sometimes offered to professional companies). I have just had to transpose one number in a forthcoming production, from F back to its original key of Eb, and to say it was a boring job copying the full score, page by page, staff by staff, just so I could eventually change the key and extract new parts, would be understatement of the year. It would have saved me over a day just to load up the existing Finale source and transpose it.

Brian


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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 3/31/2014 10:48 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wishful thinking!

Copyright is an important issue, certainly relevant here, and worth emphasizing whenever it's raised.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows XP

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Mike Rosen
himself



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Total Posts : 14146
 
   Posted 3/31/2014 10:40 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
gps said...
Once again the administration favors the rude and egotistical veteran posters here while only punishing those who dare voice their opinions among these giants. This will not go unnoticed. Have a nice day. Shame on you. Karma. No one should get a free pass to misbehave.


Well, this is certainly illuminating. Not.

Did admin do something to someone, possibly someone on my ignore list, and I missed it?



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014a on Mac 10.9.1
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 3/31/2014 10:10 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron. said...
gps said...
Once again the administration favors the rude and egotistical veteran posters here while only punishing those who dare voice their opinions among these giants. This will not go unnoticed. Have a nice day. Shame on you. Karma. No one should get a free pass to misbehave.


What on earth are you talking about and who the heck is Karma?


I ran over my dogma with my karma....


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) 2010, 2011, 2012b installed
Win XP
basically ALL Garritan sounds, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 3/31/2014 10:09 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
gps said...
Once again the administration favors the rude and egotistical veteran posters here while only punishing those who dare voice their opinions among these giants. This will not go unnoticed. Have a nice day. Shame on you. Karma. No one should get a free pass to misbehave.


What on earth are you talking about and who the heck is Karma?


Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

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gps
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   Posted 3/31/2014 9:14 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Once again the administration favors the rude and egotistical veteran posters here while only punishing those who dare voice their opinions among these giants. This will not go unnoticed. Have a nice day. Shame on you. Karma. No one should get a free pass to misbehave.
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Vaughan
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   Posted 3/31/2014 8:35 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OK, fair enough. This particular dead horse has indeed been flogged enough.


Vaughan

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La Leyenda
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   Posted 3/31/2014 8:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That's different than what the OP is after. Come on now. :))


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Vaughan
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   Posted 3/31/2014 3:26 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Actually, this whole copying/copyright business is quite involved and it gets misinterpreted or ignored more often than not. How often do I have to fight to get a choir to buy parts (which usually aren't even that expensive) instead of just copying everything, or that I get handed something someone plucked from somewhere dodgy and it's either illegally copied or really badly engraved and I have to sit there gritting my teeth, trying to read past all the mistakes and unnecessarily clumsy notation. This problem in all its ramifications remains relevant and ubiquitous, and if it doesn't concern or interest you, just ignore it. What does anyone gain (including you) from a totally useless, non-constructive, socially inept remark?


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014, Sibelius 4 - 7
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La Leyenda
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   Posted 3/30/2014 9:49 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike Rosen said...
Vaughan said...
Thank you, Leyenda, for your valuable contribution.


Vaughan, just put the child on ignore, like the rest of us have done.


You know Mike, with comments like that, you are no better than a name-calling troll yourself. You should know better. Be the bigger person. Think on it.


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Mike Rosen
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   Posted 3/30/2014 7:44 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Vaughan said...
Thank you, Leyenda, for your valuable contribution.


Vaughan, just put the child on ignore, like the rest of us have done.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer notation editor (The Gang of Eight) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2010, 2011, 2012c, 2014a on Mac 10.9.1
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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La Leyenda
Female. Composer. Legend.

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   Posted 3/30/2014 7:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm sorry but this thread is silly. Lock it already. Asked and answered. Again. And more. And now it's who knows where. Who else can chime in and dilute it? Who are we missing here? Copyright lawyers? Burnouts? Wannabes? LOCK IT ALREADY.


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Vaughan
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   Posted 3/30/2014 6:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you, Leyenda, for your valuable contribution.


Vaughan

Finale 3.2 - 2014, Sibelius 4 - 7
Tobias Giesen's plugins, full version, Robert Patterson plugins, Dolet 6 plugin
MacOS 10.9.2
MacPro 6GB, MacBookPro (2011) 8GB
Kontakt 4.2

Amsterdam

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La Leyenda
Female. Composer. Legend.

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   Posted 3/30/2014 5:56 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
yawn


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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 3/30/2014 12:44 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Out of curiosity, I just Googled "Cabaret Score" and got dozens of hits of places you can download it from. What difference does it make what format it is in as long as you can read it? I'd rather have a good printed (or pdf) copy than a Finale copy any day of the week.


Finale 2014 with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 3/30/2014 12:19 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
>or develop something else starting from it

Also illegal.

Creating such a Finale score would be a huge amount of work for just a study score.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
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Marius
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   Posted 3/30/2014 10:47 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michel R.E., I see your point. I realize you're right. Thank you!


Finale 2012a
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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 3/30/2014 9:43 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Marius said...
Sure Brian, you and John are right in case that the work would be performed publicly without paying for the rights. I agree with that 100%!
Otherwise, the general score can be found and bought in any music store. And anyone could copy it into Finale if they want to study this genre of music or this kind of orchestration or develop something else starting from it. No way to perform anything without paying for the rights!
I just thought that maybe someone already had it written in Finale. That's all.


Even if someone had done so, to distribute it to others would break copyright law.
It really doesn't matter if you are using the score for study or for performance.
Since it is under copyright, you have to buy the score from a recognized official distributor.

If you buy it, then make a .MUS file out of it for yourself that's one thing.
But if you buy it, make the .MUS file, then distribute that Finale file to others, you are breaking the law.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) 2010, 2011, 2012b installed
Win XP
basically ALL Garritan sounds, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Marius
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Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to MariusAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
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   Posted 3/30/2014 9:40 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sure Brian, you and John are right in case that the work would be performed publicly without paying for the rights. I agree with that 100%!
Otherwise, the general score can be found and bought in any music store. And anyone could copy it into Finale if they want to study this genre of music or this kind of orchestration or develop something else starting from it. No way to perform anything without paying for the rights!
I just thought that maybe someone already had it written in Finale. That's all.


Finale 2012a
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Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



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   Posted 3/30/2014 6:49 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think John's reply should be thought of in conjunction with a subtext - this music is Copyright, and anyone offering you copies - whether in Finale format or even just PDF - would be breaking the law.

Brian


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