Finale SmartMusic
  Home | Log In | Register | Search | Help
   
MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Piano Duet  Forum Quick Jump
 
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Pjamie
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to PjamieAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2014
Total Posts : 3
 
   Posted 11/17/2014 1:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can anyone please tell me how to set up the page for the usual display of treble and base clefs for primo and secundo?
Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 11/17/2014 1:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Program? Version?

Can you not simple create two piano staffs and change clefs as required?


Finale 2014c with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

violin and flamenco guitar, composer

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 11/17/2014 2:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Actually, I created a template for this that works quite well. Once we know the version, we can proceed.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Back to Top

Pjamie
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to PjamieAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2014
Total Posts : 3
 
   Posted 11/18/2014 7:24 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for comments. I have Finale 2012c.r13.
Pjamie
Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 11/18/2014 9:29 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Forgive me if I am obtuse, but is the attached image not what you want?


Finale 2014c with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

violin and flamenco guitar, composer

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music


Image Attachment :
Image Preview
pno duet.png
  71KB (image/png)
This image has been viewed 193 time(s).
Back to Top

Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Ebony IvoryAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 4594
 
   Posted 11/18/2014 9:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron. said...
Forgive me if I am obtuse, but is the attached image not what you want?

Ron, the usual way to present a piano duet is to put all the "primo" music on the right hand page of a spread, and the corresponding "secondo" on the left. And I admit, I have no idea how to do this in Finale, other than to lock the layout, print/export graphics for the left and right parts separately, and then merge them in Acrobat!

Brian


Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 11/18/2014 11:01 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Okay, not being a piano player (so you have no excuse to shoot me), I did not know this. The poster's mention of clefs made me think that that was his problem. It may be possible. I could certainly do it if playback were not an issue, simply by locking down staffs. However, Zuill said he had a template.


Finale 2014c with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

violin and flamenco guitar, composer

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

Back to Top

Ebony Ivory
On Ebony And Ivory I'll Tinkle All Day Long



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Ebony IvoryAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 4594
 
   Posted 11/18/2014 11:11 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No shooting necessary! :-)

The thing is, when arranging/composing a duet, it is much easier to have the two parts stacked, as in a standard musical score - it's how you get from that to page-by-page layout that foxes me. And the simplest way is to "print" (to TIFF or PDF) the two parts separately, then interleave their pages. Or with a physical printer, you could print part "A" single sided, then put the pages back in the printer the other way up, and print the "B" part!

Brian


Back to Top

Ron.
Composer



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ron.'s website.Send a Private Message to Ron.AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 8828
 
   Posted 11/18/2014 11:30 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The printer solution is certainly doable. As for the composing side, I'd rather write such a work "stacked" as you say, then extract the parts. I'd then number the extracted part pages to match the desired final outcome, and set up right and left margins to correspond to the final product and let printer techniques produce the printed pages.


Finale 2014c with Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.0.
JABB 3 and Concert & Marching Band 2.
Steinway: basic. Garritan's Instant Orchestra.
Garritan World Instruments. TGTools Pro
Windows 7 Home Edition, AMD FX-8100 8-Core Processor, 10 GB RAM
onboard Beats Audio sound card

violin and flamenco guitar, composer

Administrator, The Compose Forums
Specializing in contemporary art music

Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 11/18/2014 12:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The reason for the 2 separate pages approach, which is one of the traditions, is partly because of the physical location of the players. As one who has performed thousands of 4 hand music, having to look to the opposite side can be taxing. It is easier to have your part right in front of you. There is a drawback, however, in that you can't easily see what the other side is doing. But anyone playing in an ensemble sees only their part, so that hardly matters.

My template has the music in the Score view stacked so that the score plays back together. I have had a workaround where I literally changed the clefs page by page. However, that didn't have playback potential, and was hard to create and edit. In my template, each player (secondo and primo) has its own linked part. In the linked part, I have inserted blank pages to account for the other part. Then, I print one part, then place the other part in the printer for the back side. If I was going to compile pdf's, I would not insert the blank pages, I think. I've never tried that before, so I don't have a method.

One thing to remember is that you have to have exactly the same number of measures on each part's page. The systems can vary by length (number of measures), but the pages must match, as once the page is turned, you both need to be on the same measure.

Zuill
 
P.S.: I set this template up without including a Title Page, so the numbering starts with 2, intended to be the left page.
 
P.P.S.: I realize my Demo 2 has mixed clefs, so I revised the file to the more traditional Treble for Primo and Bass for Secondo. I know this can vary, but whatever. If one wants the stacked look, just print the Score. 


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 11/18/2014 11:05:06 AM (GMT-6)



File Attachment :
Piano Duet Demo 2.mus   44KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 211 time(s).

File Attachment :
Piano Duet Demo 3.mus   44KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 206 time(s).
Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 11/18/2014 1:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
After reading Ron's last post, I should mention that my template is quite plain. I did set up the page numbers in the parts properly, as short as the file is. I believe adding pages maintains the sequence and position as pages are added. I recall the blank pages will need to be added manually. Also, one will need to adjust margins according to preference. My file has fairly narrow margins, and matching, so your printing preferences will need to be considered. I know this isn't a one-size-fits-all template, but a good starting point.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Back to Top

Pjamie
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to PjamieAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2014
Total Posts : 3
 
   Posted 11/18/2014 2:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks again guys for various suggestions. What I was doing right now was just setting up for two pianos. Then it will play back OK for checking and obviously the only difference between duet and two pianos is in spacing the parts so that the hands dont clash. But I will look at Zuill's template and see if that is better.

Pjamie
Back to Top

Zuill
"The Troll"



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ZuillAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 29077
 
   Posted 11/18/2014 5:56 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I assumed 1 Piano, 4 Hands. oops.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Finale 2002b, 2003a, 2004b, 2005b, Win XP SP3, 2011b Win 7 64bit, 2012a Bought and Paid For (Hopefully soon 2012b with some of the MAJOR BUGS fixed--well, now with 2012b and some of the bugs are fixed) 2012c, with some bug fixes. 2014c at present.
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Back to Top

Peter West
Registered Member

Click to send Peter West email.Click to visit Peter West's website.Send a Private Message to Peter WestClick to Add p.west@mac.com to Your AIM Buddy List.ICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 4272
 
   Posted 11/19/2014 2:51 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When I have set a piece for 4 hands on 1 piano, I set it first as a score so that horizontal spacing was correct. Then switched off auto spacing, made 2 copies of the file,
deleted what was not required in each and manually entered the page numbers. It was easy then to adjust vertical spacing to match.

The only pain was the page numbers, but as there were only about 20 pages in each book it was no real hardship.


Peter
Music Publishing Services

*********************
iMac 27 inch, 8GB RAM /OSX.10.10+20 inch Cinema Display
Finale 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2014/Logic Pro X

Back to Top

Ere
Lievonen



Email Address Not AvailableClick to visit Ere's website.Send a Private Message to EreAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 266
 
   Posted 11/19/2014 12:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Peter West said...
When I have set a piece for 4 hands on 1 piano, I set it first as a score so that horizontal spacing was correct. Then switched off auto spacing, made 2 copies of the file, deleted what was not required in each and manually entered the page numbers. It was easy then to adjust vertical spacing to match.

Why would you not respace each part? The spacing in Primo & Secondo parts does not need to be the same. Only the page turn spots need to match.


Finale 2010b. Finale user since 1994.
Windows 7 & Mac OS X 10.9.5
www.erelievonen.eu

Back to Top

Graeme Gilmore
Registered Member

Click to send Graeme Gilmore email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Graeme GilmoreAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Aug 2000
Total Posts : 371
 
   Posted 11/20/2014 9:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here is the detailed method I used to space the parts of a 4-hand piece.

When I was recently working with a 4-hand piano piece (in Finale 2014), the following process gave me the best balance between maximizing the number of measures per page and well-laid out parts.

Spacing only the score would not necessarily get the optimum number of measures per page for the parts.

To get the spacing for the parts, Make 2 linked parts, primo and secondo, using the layout for side-by-side pages.

Then open the parts side by side (using tile windows vertically.) Be sure to make the multi-measure rests in the parts, since that can change the number of “measures” for spacing purposes.

Look at pages 1 & 1

Probably one part has more measures on page 1 than the other has.

Note the measure number that begins page 2 for the part that had the smaller number of measures on page 1.

Now, in the part with more measures on page 1, force page 2 to begin with the same measure as the part with fewer measures. Insert a page break in each part to prevent an accidental redistribution of measures.

Update the layout of each part to maximize the number of measures on page 2.

After updating the layout, pick the part with the fewest measures on page 2 and adjust the part with more measures so that page 3 begins with the same measure. Insert a page break. Update the layout …

Continue this process through the piece.

This process gives optimal spacing of each part within a page, but keeps the total number of measures the same for each page. Also by seeing each part, side-by-side, you can spot awkward page turns or other problems and solve them as you go.

You can then print these parts as others have described or, by noting the measure number that begins each page, quickly reproduce the correct measures per page in another copy of the score, as was also suggested.

This process sounds cumbersome, but actually proceeded quite rapidly.


Graeme


Finale 2014c v/4976, Windows 7 64-bit Home Primium, GPO, TGTools, Patterson Plug-Ins, JW Plug-Ins

Back to Top
You cannot post new topics in this forum. You cannot reply to topics in this forum. Printable Version
   
Forum Information
Currently it is Monday, August 19, 2019 5:03 PM (GMT -5)
There are a total of 407,481 posts in 58,781 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads