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fan
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   Posted 6/12/2015 6:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Could you pls help me?

All my songs so far have been written in the common time (4/4).

Now I am trying a new melody, but I don't know its time signature. I tried to write it in the 6/8, but maybe it is the 3/4. I really don't know.

Can Finale solve this problem for me? What should I do in Finale?

Thank you.
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Zuill
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   Posted 6/12/2015 6:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry. You have to tell Finale that information. You might need to take a theory course or ask a music teacher. Finale is for notating, but you decide the details.

Zuill


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John Ruggero
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   Posted 6/13/2015 2:18 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
From your description, it sounds like you feel that the beats in your new melody are grouped in 3's, not 2's or 4's as in your previous melodies.

If you are sure that the beats are grouped in 3's, then you can notate your melody either in 6/8 with each beat written as one eighth note or 3/4 with each beat written as one quarter note.

There is a difference, but for practical purposes, it would not be significant to you at this point.


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Ron.
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   Posted 6/13/2015 2:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The difference between 6/8 and 3/4 SHOULD sound significant. Two groups of three versus 3 groups of two is significant.


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N. Grossingink
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   Posted 6/13/2015 3:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron. said...
The difference between 6/8 and 3/4 SHOULD sound significant. Two groups of three versus 3 groups of two is significant.


I think John is talking about 6/8 where the eighth note is the pulse.

N.


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John Ruggero
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   Posted 6/13/2015 3:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Actually I said, "for practical purposes, significant to YOU at this point." (Now I know how politicians feel when they are misquoted.)

This person needs to go step by step, and I don't want to scare he or she off. After we get a little more feedback, we can delve into the more arcane matters of 6/8 vs. 3/4. That might be lesson 2, assuming that we haven't now scared this person off.

This is the music teacher of 40 years in me talking.


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Zoots
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   Posted 6/13/2015 4:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I would suggest listening to some 3/4 pieces - waltzes and then listen to 6/8 pieces such as 6/8 marches or perhaps some Irish music.

There are 2 beats per measure in the 6/8 where there are 3 in the 3/4. A conductor will beat 6/8 in 2 beats per measure unless he/she wants to direct each eighth such as in an ending. The conductor will beat a 3/4 piece in 3 or if is fast or very flowing 1 beat per measure.

You can walk to a 6/8 piece 1,2,1,2,1,2.... or Left, Right, Left, Right, ... but it doesn't easily work with a 3/4 piece unless you have 3 legs.

The above is a general comment; I'm sure pieces abound that don't exactly follow it.


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John Ruggero
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   Posted 6/13/2015 5:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Faster 6/8 is in 2, slower 6/8 is generally in 6. 6/8 can be produced both ways in the time signature tool in Finale.

Examples:

in 2 Beethoven Piano Sonata op. 81a Vivacissimamente (third mov.)

in 6 Beethoven Piano Sonata op. 10 no. 3 Largo e mesto (second mov.)

The latter piece could be rewritten in 3/4, doubling all the note values and halving the measures. No, it would not be quite the same, which is why Beethoven wrote it in 6/8, but for a person just starting out writing out their music, its good enough for now.

Fan, please come back. It's not always like this here!


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fan
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   Posted 6/14/2015 4:09 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you so much for your kind replies. I have to say I don't really understand yet. But perhaps I will try to notate my melody in 6/8 first in Finale to see how it sounds. My song's BPM is around 55.
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Zuill
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   Posted 6/14/2015 4:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
8th=55 or Dotted Quarter=55?

Zuill


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Dr. Wiggy
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   Posted 6/14/2015 4:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
fan said...
My song's BPM is around 55.

1. When you feel those beats, do you go "1 2 3 1 2 3", with each number falling on each beat?
2. Or do you feel "1 2 3" WITHIN each of those beats?

If 1, then it's 3/4.
If 2, then it's 6/8.


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Ron.
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   Posted 6/14/2015 4:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think that this might be clearer: Fill a measure with 1/8th notes. Now, do you feel ONE two three FOUR five six (6/8) or ONE two THREE four FIVE six (3/4)?


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John Ruggero
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   Posted 6/15/2015 8:44 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fan, I'm glad you came back.

After you write out your melody in Finale, post the first few measures and let us take a look at them. We might be able to tell you if it is correctly notated.

You didn't say why you were confused. Do you understand about feeling beats in groups of 2's, 3's etc.? That is the crucial matter in notating rhythm. Once you can do that, the rest is actually quite easy.


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petey forrest
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   Posted 6/15/2015 6:29 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zoots said...


You can walk to a 6/8 piece 1,2,1,2,1,2.... or Left, Right, Left, Right, ... but it doesn't easily work with a 3/4 piece unless you have 3 legs.


LOL ! Great explanation!

Petey
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John Ruggero
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   Posted 6/16/2015 1:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Then there is 5/4… one could break a leg.

Fan, if there is any doubt about feeling groups of 3 beats, think of a waltz, as Zoots mentioned, which is always in groups of three beats. The first beat is always the strongest; that is how we know where each group (of three beats) starts. Waltzes are generally written in 3/4 time with each beat being represented by one quarter note and the strongest beat falling at the beginning of each measure. That is what bar lines really show: which beats are the strongest: the first beat. A waltz could also be written in 3/8 time with each beat being represented by one eighth note. Again the strongest beat would come at the beginning of each measure. There would be no difference in the sound of a piece written in 3/4 or 3/8, just in the way it was written down.

Sometimes two 3/8 measures are put together to form a larger measure of 6/8 time, just as two measures of 2/4 are sometimes put together to form a 4/4 measure. This is to show that the groups of three beats are themselves grouped as a pair, with the first group felt as stronger than the second group. Three measures of 3/8 would form a 9/8 measure, so that the first of the three groups is felt as the strongest.

So 6/8 is really two groups of three beats; but 3/4 is just one group of three beats. If you want to show the groups of three beats in pairs, write your piece in 6/8. However, the simplest way at first would to write it in 3/4 with each beat as one quarter note. This issue about 6/8 vs. 3/4 is what I was referring to in my first post. It is a common issue when people first write down their melodies.

All of this explanation is regarding slow and medium tempo pieces. There are 3/8 and 6/8 and 9/8 pieces in which the eighth note "beats" are so fast that we no longer feel them as beats and feel only each GROUP as a beat. So 3/8 would be felt as one beat (GROUP) subdivided into three's. 6/8 would be felt as just two beats (GROUPS) each subdivided into three's etc. A good example would be the Irish Jig, as Zoots also mentioned. So 6/8 can sometimes be felt as just two beats per measure, which is confusing, since 3/4, which has exactly the same number of 8th notes in it, generally gets three beats per measure! That is what other Forum posts were concerned about. It is another common point of confusion.

Whichever is the issue, I hope this post shed a little more light on it.

You can tell that we are really trying hard to help you. Post part of your piece and it will be a lot easier!


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