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Jetcopy
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   Posted 10/14/2015 10:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Ruggero said...


10. I think that it is a really nice thing to give a measure or two of cue at the beginning of a piece if the part is resting, even if it is only two measure rest. There is no law that says you have to do it, but it is comforting to the player and makes them feel like you are on their side, so to speak.

I'm not sure, but I think John was referring to the harp part when he made this comment. Irregardless, in this case, "Engraving for Publishers" it's not up to the engraver to add or delete cues. That's the editor's job. That's one of the differences between copyists and engravers.


Retina Macbook Pro OSX 10.9.5, 2.5GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM

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Fred G. Unn
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   Posted 10/14/2015 10:14 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
loweredsixth said...
I think I need to print things out and edit them while looking at the paper. I mostly edit my stuff while looking at it on my computer screen, and I think I'm missing things that way.

I create PDFs of everything I do as I know I'll always need them at some point. I usually print from Finale to PDF, and then print the PDFs. I'm not entirely sure why, but I prefer making a final proofreading pass from PDF vs from Finale. For whatever reason, mistakes just seem to jump out for me on a PDF.
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Flint
silly bear



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   Posted 10/14/2015 10:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fred G. Unn said...
loweredsixth said...
I think I need to print things out and edit them while looking at the paper. I mostly edit my stuff while looking at it on my computer screen, and I think I'm missing things that way.

I create PDFs of everything I do as I know I'll always need them at some point. I usually print from Finale to PDF, and then print the PDFs. I'm not entirely sure why, but I prefer making a final proofreading pass from PDF vs from Finale. For whatever reason, mistakes just seem to jump out for me on a PDF.


I print out all my parts to PDF and then study them on my iPad and make notes using GoodReader. This has been so useful I'm actually considering retiring my old iPad2 for one of the Pros when they are available.


woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 8 64-bit, 12GB RAM

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read

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Jetcopy
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   Posted 10/15/2015 9:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Joe,

Earlier in this thread, I mentioned that sometimes it's necessary to manually move notes for aesthetic reasons, even though they're not perfectly lined up vertically any longer. I'm engraving a concert band piece and just came upon that situation.

The top 3 staves: flute, oboe, bassoon
The next 3: Clarinets 1 & 2, Bass Clarinet.

In the screenshot, I've made the adjustments to the 1st measure, but not the 3rd yet. In the 3rd measure you can see that the 32nd notes in the flute are causing the notes in the clarinets to be spaced unevenly. In the 1st measure I highlighted everything except the top staff and applied music spacing. I got nice even 8th notes. Then in the flute staff, using special tools, I nudged the 1st 32nd note to the left and nudged the C 8th note on beat 4 to the right. Just enough to avoid collisions.

The end result, although not in perfect vertical alignment, is better to look at rather than the default spacing in measure 3.
BTW, I have auto-spacing turned off.

This isn't something that I need to do often, but it does come up a few times each year and this is what this publisher prefers.

JT


Retina Macbook Pro OSX 10.9.5, 2.5GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM


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loweredsixth
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   Posted 10/15/2015 11:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting. Thanks for the visual!


Finale 2014d
Windows 10

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Benjamin Tubb
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   Posted 10/16/2015 3:33 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've posted 15 examples off my PDF versions from my Finale files for the Welsh music of William Downing Evans (1811-1897) on this webpage for anyone interested. MIDI performance files, and text files of their lyrics are also available as free downloads.


www.pdmusic.org/evans.html


Benjamin Robert Tubb, Finale Engraver
Finale 2014d, 1.9 GHz HP Pavilion Entertainment Notebook dv7-7121nr;
Windows 10 (64-bit) with 16 GB RAM
SONAR Platinum (Ipswich Update),
Harmony Assistant with its Virtual Singer module
EDIROL UM-880 8-in/8-out USB MIDI Interface / MIDI Patcher
Owner of Public Domain Music
Editor and Compiler of
Henry Clay Work: Complete Songs and Choruses (2002)
Arthur Clifton (aka Philip Antony Corri): Selected American Songs (2009)
All are published by Kallisti Music Press.

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 10/16/2015 3:55 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Benjamin Tubb said...
I've posted 15 examples off my PDF versions from my Finale files for the Welsh music of William Downing Evans (1811-1897) on this webpage for anyone interested.

Lovely stuff. However, the first one: Hurrah for the Rail -- the lyrics crash into each other in places, and the hyphen seems rather high.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014d, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.10.5)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 10/16/2015 6:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Benjamin, this is an excellent job with just a few little things here and there that you might look over to make it flawless. They are the kinds of things that we all could use another eye to catch. Wiggy mentioned a couple, and I will give you a few more:

1. Hurrah! etc. I think this distribution of the notes would be better: (See attachment) It keeps the upper voice stem up and the middle voice stems down, which is more natural given the context.

2. I've Loved Thee There is a missing repeat mark on the last page, and the first and second endings are the strange-looking Finale defaults. The brackets should be separated from each other and not as deep, as in most sheet music.

3. Friendship On page 2 there is fermata that should be over the chord, not under, and there is a missing fermata.

In general:

4. Your slurs are quite thick and sometimes their shape could be improved.

5. It's usually advisable to have page numbers.

6. This might be just me, but at times there doesn't seem to be enough music on the page, even considering the lyrics. As a pianist, I am always looking for fewer and better page turns. If your margins were smaller might you be able to get another measure on a line at times? Of course, if your edition is intended to be an exact facsimile of the original in terms of layout, then please disregard my comment.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.



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Benjamin Tubb
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   Posted 10/21/2015 2:30 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for all of the constructive comments.

Wiggy: The height of hyphens is automatic. I don't know of any way to change it. The lyric clashes in mm. 21 and 51 are indeed correctable. Thanks for pointing them out.

John: Page numbers are used on all pages except the first, at the bottom. "I've Loved Thee There" is not missing a Repeat on the last page. However, m. 26's Repeat 2, bar should extend over the next measure (i.e. 26)! I agree about the fermatas :>)

P. S. all of the scores were engraved in 2011, so hopefully I've improved some since then!


Benjamin Robert Tubb, Finale Engraver
Finale 2014d, 1.9 GHz HP Pavilion Entertainment Notebook dv7-7121nr;
Windows 10 (64-bit) with 16 GB RAM
SONAR Platinum (Jamaica Plain Update),
Harmony Assistant with its Virtual Singer module
EDIROL UM-880 8-in/8-out USB MIDI Interface / MIDI Patcher
Owner of Public Domain Music
Editor and Compiler of
Henry Clay Work: Complete Songs and Choruses (2002)
Arthur Clifton (aka Philip Antony Corri): Selected American Songs (2009)
All are published by Kallisti Music Press.

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 10/21/2015 11:08 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You are quite welcome, Benjamin.

Actually there "appear" to be two repeat marks missing in "I've Loved Thee" one on page 3 and one on page 4. However, these are not 1st and second endings at all, but two sets of alternative measures within a repeat! See attached. I've seen this at the end of major sections but never within the body of a piece. Is this standard in vocal music?

As you mentioned, you didn't add the final hooks to the second alternative brackets so it becomes even more confusing. Even if this is from the original, I think that it would be much better to write out the repeat incorporating the alternatives. In any case, the second alternative set could surely be eliminated with up stem and/or small note on the pickup note used the first time.

It is normal to number pages of sheet music at the top outside edges. Your system: "I've Loved Thee Long—Page 2 of 4" located at the bottom of the pages is not easily found, and the number must be ferreted out. If this style is becoming common, I regret it. If it is from the original, I regret that too.

A four page piece like "I've Loved Thee" and especially one that repeats from the beginning should have one page turn. Therefore it should be numbered 2-5, not 1-4, so that there are two pairs of facing pages. The exception would be where it is actually better to have two turns instead of one because of the location of the turn possibilities. That would be weighed against the awkwardness of turning back two pages.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

Post Edited (John Ruggero) : 10/21/2015 10:14:05 AM (GMT-5)



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Benjamin Tubb
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   Posted 10/22/2015 10:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John, thanks again for your constructive criticisms.

We'll have to disagree on several issues: (1) I prefer measure numbers be attributed to any and all measures, regardless of whether they are pickup measures or not; (2) I prefer the bottom page numbering format that I used; (3) the use of embedded repeat markers [but not repeat endings!] is my solution to a more transparent reading and less marked score, for which the intent is understandable if not immediately obvious <g>; (4) as to the layout being better adopted for page turns vice readability of lyrics -- I disagree (I very much dislike scores with too much blank space on the page, when avoidable.

Indeed when there are many alternative music/lyric variations, the avoidance of "dedicated repeat sections", is certainly preferable, and becomes a matter more of space over clarity (and simplicity over "laziness").

P.S. I did remember that the height of hyphens within lyrics can be modified by the Lyric's Tool.


Benjamin Robert Tubb, Finale Engraver
Finale 2014d, 1.9 GHz HP Pavilion Entertainment Notebook dv7-7121nr;
Windows 10 (64-bit) with 16 GB RAM
SONAR Platinum (Jamaica Plain Update),
Harmony Assistant with its Virtual Singer module
EDIROL UM-880 8-in/8-out USB MIDI Interface / MIDI Patcher
Owner of Public Domain Music
Editor and Compiler of
Henry Clay Work: Complete Songs and Choruses (2002)
Arthur Clifton (aka Philip Antony Corri): Selected American Songs (2009)
All are published by Kallisti Music Press.

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