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Djard
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   Posted 11/30/2015 2:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Someone kindly answered this question for me previously, but I had difficulty comprehending his explanation. Having just reinstalled Finale 2012c on my laptop, here is what I am thinking of doing to fix the bloated library file on my Desktop PC (also running Win 7); but I would like some advice before proceeding.

1. open my default document on the laptop with freshly installed Finale -> create all my custom expressions and articulations.

2. Save the library file, checking all the boxes in "Save Library" dialog window.

3. Navigate to the location of "Default Libraries" (C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\MakeMusic\Finale 2012\Libraries\Default Libraries).

4. Name the file as (for guitar) "Classical Guitar.lib" -> Save.

5. Copy the file from my laptop -> overwrite the bloated one on my Desktop PC.

Step 2 above is where I think all of Finale's shapes get duplicated. In the past, when I updated a library file, it approximately doubled in size. When adding additional custom articulations and expressions, what must I do to prevent Finale from duplicating elements and bloating the library file? Will deleting all the elements in the "Articulation Selection" window before saving the library file then re-selecting them from the "Shape Selection" to re-populate the "Articulation Selection" panel stop the duplication, or is there a way to load a library file into a new document without duplicating the existing elements?


Djard
Finale 2012

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michelp
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   Posted 11/30/2015 7:07 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
AFAIK, step 2 doesn't duplicate expressions.
Add your expressions (articulations, staff styles, etc...) to built a complete library and verify that they are no duplicates before you save the library.
When you load the library into another file, that's were the duplicates can occur, because the new library doesn't replace the existing one, it gets added under it.
So the only way I know to avoid duplicates is to delete all expressions (articulations, staff styles, etc...) in the new file before loading the new library.


Michel
Finale 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

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Zuill
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   Posted 11/30/2015 9:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When I save a Library, I usually delete all the items I don't need first. If I had created some articulations, I delete all the articulations that I know would already be in the destination file, leaving only the newly created items.

Remember that metatools don't get transferred when saving and importing a Library.

Zuill


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John Ruggero
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   Posted 11/30/2015 10:29 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There should be an option to overwrite duplicates when loading a library. This is what computers do better than humans. Perhaps a plugin?


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 11/30/2015 10:40 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Also, remember that you can start the whole process with a clean document that has no libraries already loaded, "File->New->Document without libraries".  Then you must load all the libraries you need before saving the template.  I'm not sure which ones are loaded in the standard default document, but at least the "Maestro Font Default.LIB" and probably all the libraries in the "Default Libraries" directory.  Maybe someone knows.


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Derrek
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   Posted 11/30/2015 12:16 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My strategy when I want a custom library is to load the file w/o libraries, create the custom items I want, and then save that library. I do not duplicate preexisting items in my custom library, and I split the custom items into different libraries of articulations, expressions, or the like to be as flexible as possible.
The when I want to use the custom items I can add my custom library/libraries to the file that needs them.


Finale 2014d - Windows 7
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Motet
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   Posted 11/30/2015 1:28 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Ruggero said...
There should be an option to overwrite duplicates when loading a library. This is what computers do better than humans. Perhaps a plugin?

I largely avoid libraries for this reason.

A plug-in would have to be run after loading. Maybe Charles could be persuaded to step up to the plate if JW Lua has access to the table of articulations, etc. It seems like keeping the older one would work best, since if there were a metatool assigned or the one was in use, it would be the elder.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Finale 2014d demo
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teacue
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   Posted 11/30/2015 1:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On my system Finale does not seem to load duplicates if the identical text expressions belong to the same category and if they really are identical, meaning with exactly the same character settings or any settings you can make in the expression designer.
At least on my system.

Say you have some text expressions in document A.
Save the text expression library and load it again in document A.
There will not be any duplicate (at least on my system).
Now change the font size of one text expression.
Save the text expression library with this edited expression.
Close document A (that now has the edited expression) without saving it.
open document A again (now it does not have the edited expression but the original one).
Load the expression library that contains the edited expression.
Now you have the original text expression plus the edited one (as it should).

But it's a whole different story if the expressions are in different categories.
Even if the expressions are absolutely identical and even if two categories have exactly the same settings (beside of the name of the category) then Finale seems to load duplicates (again at least on my system).
I also noticed that Finale loads the expression in the category whith the identical expression!


Finale 2014.5, Windows 8.1 - 64 bit

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Motet
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   Posted 11/30/2015 2:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've noticed duplicates more with articulations than expressions.

I see that "File maintenance" is supposed to clean up duplicates. Looks like having metatools assigned is perhaps the issue.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
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Post Edited (Motet) : 11/30/2015 12:13:34 PM (GMT-6)

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Zuill
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   Posted 11/30/2015 7:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I get double the articulations and mostly double the expressions. Duplicates of the categories are added.

Funny that data check doesn't get rid of the duplicates. I just tested the default libraries. I'm guessing technically they are not truly duplicates but different in some way. I guess I should run a test creating a library from a single file and then loading it back in.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
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Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Motet
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   Posted 11/30/2015 7:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Perhaps having a metatool constitutes a difference.


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Zuill
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   Posted 11/30/2015 8:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I just did a test. I opened the Maestro Default file and saved the stock articulations as a Library. I then loaded that library back in. No duplications.

So, I'm guessing the source of the default Maestro articulations that comes with Finale has some other tag that makes Finale believe they are different than the ones in the default file. That is curious. Why would they do that?

Zuill

P.S.: I just did the same test with Expressions with the same result. Absolutely no duplications.


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 11/30/2015 6:53:38 PM (GMT-6)

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Motet
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   Posted 11/30/2015 9:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't know Djard's intent, but I don't think libraries are the way to go to make a "house style." Rather, there's the template mechanism or (which I just discovered) the Document Styles directory. I reserve libraries for small add-ons rather than the whole set of articulations.


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Finale 2014d demo
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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 11/30/2015 11:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...

 
Maybe Charles could be persuaded to step up to the plate if JW Lua has access to the table of articulations, etc.

JW Lua does have access to articulations, expressions, and other categories of library items.  In fact I started working on a plug-in some time ago that would delete all unused expressions from a given expression category.  I never finished it.  The way Finale handles these data under the hood is not intuitive, at least to me, and I never quite figured out how to do what I wanted.  Eliminating duplicates would be in the same vein.  I'll look more into it, but no promises.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

 

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Zuill
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   Posted 12/1/2015 12:28 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Finale already has a built in tool to remove duplicates. I've used it before. However, since it didn't remove duplicates (or what appear to be duplicates) from the default Maestro Articulation or Expression Libraries, I assume there are different settings somewhere in them that make them not exactly duplicates. Since my experiment about exporting and importing didn't result in duplicates (of items or categories), I figure what appears on the outside to be duplicates are actually different in some way. I suppose one could examine the details of 2 of them to see.

Zuill

P.S.: I just loaded the Articulations library again hat comes with 2014.5. There are now 2X the articulations, or so it appears. I tried duplicating one of the articulations and then ran the data checker for duplicates. It deleted the new duplicate. So, Finale recognized that as a duplicate, because I left it untouched. I then edited the duplicate, and ran the utility, and it remained. Even though it appears to be a duplicate, it isn't, so it was not removed. So, all those appearing to be duplicates are not. I compared 2 that appeared to be duplicates, and could not find anything different. So, the difference must be under the hood somewhere, as Charles mentioned.


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 11/30/2015 10:39:16 PM (GMT-6)

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Motet
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   Posted 12/1/2015 3:18 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Charles Lawrence said...
I started working on a plug-in some time ago that would delete all unused expressions from a given expression category.


You can do that in Finale, it turns out. Go to the category's list of expressions (double click somewhere, or pretend to program a metatool), select all the expressions with the mouse (Ctrl-A doesn't work), and click Delete.

It will say, "One or more of these items is currently in use in the score. Are you sure you want these items removed?" Click No, and those in use will be kept and the others deleted.

(The prompt is confusing because "these items" is used twice to mean completely different things!)

However, if you do this in the Show All screen, there's a rather alarming bug: everything appears to be deleted, even though you answered No. Every category appears empty. But if you quit the dialog and reopen it, the ones you meant to spare are in fact still there.


Finale 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Finale 2014d demo
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Post Edited (Motet) : 12/1/2015 1:26:15 AM (GMT-6)

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Motet
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   Posted 12/1/2015 3:41 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting experiment, Zuill. I tried it with expressions, and both copies must not have a metatool assigned to them before File Maintenance will remove a duplicate made with the Duplicate button. I wonder why articulations escape this restriction.

Zuill said...
I then edited the duplicate, and ran the utility, and it remained.


I tried just clicking OK to immediately close the Edit dialog and the dupilcate was still removed. Perhaps you made a real change?


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John Ruggero
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   Posted 12/1/2015 9:15 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There could be an option to remove duplicates even if there are minor differences or metatools assigned.

And would be so nice to be able to save a single expression category, a single expression or articulation, or undefined group of expressions or articulations as a library.


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michelp
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   Posted 12/1/2015 9:40 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A possibility is to create a "new document without libraries", create an expression category (duplicating an existing one), create its content.
Make sure the new category differs form the existing ones in one way or another (position, fonts, etc).
Then save the text expression library and load it in any new document. The new category will be there with its content.


Michel
Finale 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 12/1/2015 11:45 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
Charles Lawrence said...
I started working on a plug-in some time ago that would delete all unused expressions from a given expression category.


You can do that in Finale, it turns out. Go to the category's list of expressions (double click somewhere, or pretend to program a metatool), select all the expressions with the mouse (Ctrl-A doesn't work), and click Delete.

It will say, "One or more of these items is currently in use in the score. Are you sure you want these items removed?" Click No, and those in use will be kept and the others deleted.

(The prompt is confusing because "these items" is used twice to mean completely different things!)

However, if you do this in the Show All screen, there's a rather alarming bug: everything appears to be deleted, even though you answered No. Every category appears empty. But if you quit the dialog and reopen it, the ones you meant to spare are in fact still there.

Nice to know, Motet.  I always thought, without actually doing it, remember Aristotle, that saying "No" meant not to remove any of the selected items.  Silly me.  I still want to develop the plug-in fully, just to prove that it can be done.
 
Zuill said...
Finale already has a built in tool to remove duplicates.
I create a document with no libraries, and load the Maestro Font Default library.  I then attempt to add a quadruple ffff, expression number 1, but instead click on the duplicate button 5 times.  I now have 6 ffff expressions, the last 5 numbered 72-76.  I then use the file maintenance utility to remove duplicates.  It only removes the last 4 numbered 73-76.  Number 1 and number 72 remain.  When I get time, I'm going to use JW Lua to fully examine the innards of these two ffff's to see if I can find what, if any, actual differences there are under the hood, or if this is just a "bug" in the file maintenance utility.
 


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

 

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU with 6 dual core processors @ 3.50 GHz (12 threads)

32 GB RAM

Realtek High Definition on board audio
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 GPU with 4GB ram

512 GB SSD system disk

Four 4TB and one 1TB internal SATA HD's
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center x64 Edition, (06.03.9600.00)
Finale versions: 2011b.r2, 2012c.r13, 2014d.v5030

GPO4.02

 

Cakewalk SONAR X3

 

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

Post Edited (Charles Lawrence) : 12/1/2015 9:53:59 AM (GMT-6)

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 12/1/2015 7:27 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Charles, I was hoping that you would look into this one again, but was afraid to ask given your recent hard work on the double-staffed MM rest. Oh, if only one could save a single expression or articulation, or a group of articulations or an expression category as a library, it would make creating new files and templates so much easier.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
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Motet
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   Posted 12/1/2015 7:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When you copy from one document to another, any attached articulations or expressions are inserted into the destination file. One can sometimes use that to copy an expression or two (delete the target of the copy afterwards and the ported expressions and articulations remain).


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michelp
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   Posted 12/1/2015 7:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Ruggero said...
...Oh, if only one could save a single expression or articulation, or a group of articulations or an expression category as a library, it would make creating new files and templates so much easier.

Have you read my previous post ?


Michel
Finale 2014d, 2012c (main), 2011c, 2010b, 2009b, MacOsX 10.9.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, French azerty kb, Dolet 6. Full TGTools. MOTU Audio Express, 3 monitors.

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Zuill
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   Posted 12/1/2015 8:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Charles Lawrence said...
I create a document with no libraries, and load the Maestro Font Default library.  I then attempt to add a quadruple ffff, expression number 1, but instead click on the duplicate button 5 times.  I now have 6 ffff expressions, the last 5 numbered 72-76.  I then use the file maintenance utility to remove duplicates.  It only removes the last 4 numbered 73-76.  Number 1 and number 72 remain.  When I get time, I'm going to use JW Lua to fully examine the innards of these two ffff's to see if I can find what, if any, actual differences there are under the hood, or if this is just a "bug" in the file maintenance utility.
The reason the one remained is because of the description. It has (copy) in it. Delete that and then the utility will get rid of it.
 
Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 12/1/2015 9:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I did read your post, michelp. That is a excellent work-around for creating an independent expression category library.


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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