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Eisengrim
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   Posted 1/9/2016 11:02 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So the beta version of Overture 5 just came out, and from what I've seen on the website, it looks to me like they've just taken a bit of a quantum leapfrog over Finale, at least in terms of creating decent soundfiles. Not so sure about the engraving aspect, as they don't discuss it much.

There isn't a demo version yet, and I've never used any of their products, but I was wondering what people might think of what they've done. Looks good, looks bad? Focusing on the right things? Anyone want to start a betting pool on whether the next full version of Finale will integrate some of these kinds of features? For those of us who prefer to go beyond the Garritan sounds, it's currently looking a bit mouth-watering...

sonicscores.com/overture/


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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 1/9/2016 1:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
if the engraving isn't better than Finale, then there is no "quantum leapfrog" over Finale, is there.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) now using 2012 under Windows 8.1
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Bill Reed
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   Posted 1/9/2016 2:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No, not better engraving, though probably better than Notion. It has many DAW like features for controlling performance and integrating sample libraries.


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Jetcopy
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   Posted 1/9/2016 3:14 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've always viewed Overture as a jack of all trades, but master of none. Its engraving capabilities doesn't match Finale or Sibelius, and its playback controls are less than what you can do with a DAW. It's probably fine for users who want an all-in-one solution., but I've never encountered anyone using it for professional engraving services.


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dewdman42
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   Posted 1/9/2016 7:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Overture4 is definitely a much better engraver then Notion, by a long shot. Its probably not as good of an engraver as finale/sibelius, but its VERY capable. I have used it for some 80 piece orchestral session work and some other composers that were using Finale and Sibelius that were involved were quite impressed with my scores. It outputs very quality scores and is quite very capable....WAY beyond what Notion can do.

Overture4 had significant midi performance capabilities that I feel placed it beyond Finale...and Ov5 will be WAY beyond that, and beyond most of the notational programs in terms of sequencing and sound production, and mock ups, etc, yet with very capable engraving capability. Its a very cool product actually, I will for sure upgrade, while I have so far allowed my finale upgrades to lapse. Just sayin'...

I am by no means a Finale guru, but part of the reason is because whenever I have embarked on a project, I had to choose between Finale and Overture and always found Overture about a million times easier to get going, and to create instantly great looking scores without any fuss. I did find that Overture's (version 4) part extraction was a bit fiddly, I had to do some manual reformatting every time I regenerated parts..which was a headache and possibly Finale's is better. I hope Ov5 will be improved in this and many other areas. It is supposedly a complete rewrite of the software and I can tell you the UI looks majorly new and different, so it might as well be a completely new product. I don't really think there will be anything else quite like Ov5 for quite a while..it fills an interesting niche of a notation based sequencer....that happens to be able to do quite advanced engraving.

The author of Overture even added a feature at my request, the so called "hollywood lines" feature which is able to place really large time sigs and vertical lines on the score as a lot of working conductors like to see for session work. Everyone else has to print out their scores with finale, jump through hoops to make some room on the score and then use a sharpy to write large time sigs and vertical lines.
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Eisengrim
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   Posted 1/9/2016 9:00 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Apparently I didn't make what was making my wallet twitch well enough... Where the superiority seems to lie (as dewdman42 mentions) is in producing sound files. I'm an extremely notation-based composer, but I've always wanted to produce better-sounding scores than Finale allows. I've been looking around DAWs for a while, but it becomes pretty clear pretty soon that those involve basically learning a new language and a new instrument. Which is fine: I mean, Finale doesn't come with 'This is how notation works' workshops. But it's a lot of work, especially for someone who's not hugely computer-savvy. Plus, DAWs cost a fortune. I've been looking at Reaper, but until their score viewer option is a workable thing, there's absolutely no point in my even trying with it.

From the look of it, Overture5 seems like the ideal midpoint between a notation program and a DAW for someone like me. Finale is doubtless better on the engraving front, and I've spent way too much time working out how to works over the last number of years to jump ship; but if there turns out to be an easy way to transfer Finale files to Overture, I'd be very tempted to write in Finale and then switch to Overture to create a sound file (basically, to use it as a DAW, except one where I might actually be able to work out how to do things).

Finale does strike me as falling a bit behind on the sound front, which is fine; if the niche they've chosen is to be the best engraving software, good for them. But with it still stuck in 32-bit and therefore limiting what you can do with other libraries, and its resources being dedicated to the visual rather than the aural, it seems to be they've left a gap to fill which Overture5 looks like it's on the verge of filling.

Mostly I was wondering what you'd think of the audio features they're promising, whether that sort of thing might work with Finale and, if they would, whether there's any chance the Finale elves will ever leave them under our Christmas trees.


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CraigP
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   Posted 1/10/2016 12:02 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Eisengrim said...
it looks to me like they've just taken a bit of a quantum leapfrog over Finale, at least in terms of creating decent soundfiles.


Overture recognizes that in the modern world of music production, the engravings just aren't a little enclave on their own. Finale needs to take a good look at what Overture has done. This is the big frontier for music production.
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Labecki
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   Posted 1/13/2016 1:34 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Is there a demo version of Overture 4 or 5?
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bvstudios
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   Posted 1/13/2016 2:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Worth a look maybe... but I just shelled out for the 2014 upgrade, so it will be a while before I try something new.


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michelp
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   Posted 1/13/2016 9:09 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
According to their web site, Overture imports MusicXML, but doesn't not export in that format. A serious drawback if confirmed.


Michel
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Bill Reed
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   Posted 1/13/2016 10:52 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It does export also


Finale 2011/14, Sibelius 8.1, Notion 5, Overture 4, Cubase 8
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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 1/13/2016 11:22 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Labecki said...
Is there a demo version of Overture 4 or 5?
Their website says demos are "coming soon".
 
 
This is the same product that used to be marketed by Cakewalk, albeit, improved since those days, I would hope.  I used it before I switched to Finale.   I recall it worked fairly well but certainly had its flaws, especially in formatting the pages.  I wonder how it performs now.  When the demos come out, I might give it a try.


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Labecki
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   Posted 1/13/2016 1:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks Charles, I did not notice that. :)
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ebiggs1
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   Posted 1/14/2016 2:14 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"if the engraving isn't better than Finale, then there is no "quantum leapfrog" over Finale, is there."

+1


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ebiggs1
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   Posted 1/14/2016 2:16 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I suspect the folks at Makemusic monitor all the competing choices. I know I would if I were them. But the only serious challenger is Sib.
Sib does have some features Finale needs and soon. :-)


Music makes the difference!
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nordensten
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   Posted 1/14/2016 4:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
michelp said...
According to their web site, Overture imports MusicXML, but doesn't not export in that format. A serious drawback if confirmed.


MusicXML export is a new feature in Overture 5 it seems. Toying with a demo of Overture 4 a while back, I discovered that O. is really good at transcribing real time Midi input, so this combination of features made me take the plunge today. By all means, the current available version is a beta, but as of this writing there are some serious problems with MusicXML export.

I tested with a single staff containing one voice with notes, dynamic markings incl. hairpins, and slurs...
Result importing to Finale 2014.5: All accidentals are hidden. (only plugin that will reveal them is JW Accidentals). Dynamics markings incl. hairpins end at the wrong location. Slurs appear correctly.

Another file containing 2 voices produces multiple error dlgs in Finale: "XML error in file XXX.xml at line XXX: The content of element type "backup" must match "(duration, (footnote?,level!?))". The file eventually opens with the same problems as the single voice file. Voice 2 appears as layer 2, but is offset by hidden whole rests, producing a mess...

Importing into Sibelius 7.1.3 produces error messages ("not a MusicXML file...") when the file contains more than one voice, but will finally open. Single voice files open correctly (all accidentals show) with a slight offset of dynamics...


(Finale 1.0 (1988) -> 2014.5) using 2014.5 (on Win since 1997)
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Dean L. Surkin
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   Posted 1/15/2016 10:44 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Somebody said...
Where the superiority seems to lie (as dewdman42 mentions) is in producing sound files. I'm an extremely notation-based composer, but I've always wanted to produce better-sounding scores than Finale allows. I've been looking around DAWs for a while, but it becomes pretty clear pretty soon that those involve basically learning a new language and a new instrument. Which is fine: I mean, Finale doesn't come with 'This is how notation works' workshops. But it's a lot of work, especially for someone who's not hugely computer-savvy. Plus, DAWs cost a fortune.

I've been exporting my Finale files to MIDI and importing them into Sonar, where I can tweek them as necessary. Sonar is not particularly expensive, and it has great capabilities as a DAW running on Windows. While there's a steep learning curve for release-quality sound files, it's not too difficult to make demo-quality sound files.


Dean L. Surkin
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