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bcarwell
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   Posted 2/10/2016 6:24 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am trying to get a snare and tymp to roll in Finale 2012.

I found a thread ~ 2013. It said to add the 3 lined tremolo from the Articulations Tool OR the wavy lined trill extension in the Smart Shapes Tool.

I tried both and still all I get is a single strike.

I know from the thread it was a known problem.

Just wondering in 2015 if this has been fixed and how do I get a basic snare and tymp roll ?

This is very, very frustrating and disappointing that something this basic is giving me a hassle.

Any suggestions ?

Bob
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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 2/10/2016 6:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It should work so maybe there is something unique in your file that causes it not to happen. Can you give the link to the 2013 thread? It sounds like it might have been a discussion I was involved in, as this has come up before.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 2/10/2016 5:50:54 PM (GMT-6)



File Attachment :
Timpani and Snare Rolls.mus   42KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 217 time(s).
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bcarwell
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   Posted 2/10/2016 8:16 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here you go Mr. Zuill:

http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=5&m=366622

Indeed, your memory is correct and you did participate in the thread. As of then rolls still appeared squirrely and I was hoping things had been
fixed by now.

Please don't spend any time on my account. There are plenty more people in need of your help and I almost feel I've been wearing out
my welcome of late. Its just that I've not been on Finale in a while and have a huge score/homework due for a Cinematic Orchestration course
I've been taking, and I'm being hit with a ton of issues as I come up to speed on Finale.

Bob

I will be sequencing from Finale into Cubase tomorrow and will take care of the drum rolls there.

It would just be nice though to hear the rolls in Finale since everything else seems to be working pretty well.
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Ron.
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   Posted 2/10/2016 10:49 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It would be helpful if we could see a sample file that demonstrates the problem. I have never had an issue with playback of drum rolls and did not know anyone was having a problem with it.


Finale 2014.5

GPO4, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

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bvstudios
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   Posted 2/11/2016 12:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I get some "regular" drum rolls that sound horribly mechanical, and so try to avoid 'em on snares etc, but never the tymp. They have always sounded very real to me.

I roll tymps using a trill over the top, extended out to where you want the roll to end. Add a crescendo below and although it looks a little off, it sounds pretty good.

My issue with snare rolls is the so-called "death rolls" (accomplished by dragging the sticks across the skin as you play alternate L-R) that are most easily heard in martial -particularly bapipe- pieces. Just cannot make that convincing.


K M Frye




Finale 2012c, release 13, PM 2011, 2010, 2007, 2005, 2003, 2000

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Zuill
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   Posted 2/11/2016 4:06 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If HP is set to none, then the rolls won't happen. That is my guess. We have yet to see a sample file, so we have very little to go on.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Derrek
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   Posted 2/11/2016 1:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
bvstudios said...
My issue with snare rolls is the so-called "death rolls" (accomplished by dragging the sticks across the skin as you play alternate L-R) that are most easily heard in martial -particularly bapipe- pieces. Just cannot make that convincing.


IIRC there is a specific snare roll sample in Basic Orch Percussion (GPO4). That is certainly better than simply indicating a snare roll (I agree) but may require a separate hidden staff to use with a drum set.


Finale 2014d - Windows 7
GPO 4, JABB 3, World Instruments
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bcarwell
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   Posted 2/11/2016 2:39 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here is a test file with snare roll in first 5 measures (not in composition- I just added it for test purposes).

I tried every notation I've read about- dual lines, triple lines, trill, trill extension. Same result every time. A single snare shot, no roll.

I checked and Human Performance is set on to Classical.

I'm sure it must be something stupid and obvious, but I get no rolls. (I do however get a kick from champagne).

I used the Attachment Manager. It said upload was successful but I don't see any attachment on this post I am about
to send. If it didn't attach, I will try again.

Bob

File Attachment :
SNARE DRUM TEST.mus   106KB (application/octet-stream)
This file has been downloaded 234 time(s).
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bcarwell
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   Posted 2/11/2016 2:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Odd.

I just loaded my Test File back into Finale, and now all the snare rolls are working and rolling for all the notation tests I put in.

They would not work in playback of the live score as I added them. But if I save and then reload, they work.

Go figure.

Bob
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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 2/11/2016 2:49 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Since it is playing a roll for me (every one of the notation symbols you tried worked), we need to find why it doesn't for you.

I'm guessing it might be something in your HP preferences? Hard to say, since they are not attached to the file.

Zuill

P.S.: You are using the playback controls, right? You're not doing space-bar click on a measure?

P.P.S.: Just saw your additional post, so I guess all is well.


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

Post Edited (Zuill) : 2/11/2016 1:52:27 PM (GMT-6)

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Credo
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   Posted 2/11/2016 3:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If you're trying to use an 'unmetered sample' to pay a roll, then it sounds to me like a drum mapping issue.

Drum maps allow you to assign various MIDI NOTE messages to a line or space, and note-shape on the score.
Check your drum and percussion stave mapping and see if there is an assignment for the 'drum roll' pointing to the proper note number in the drum map.
If there is no such instrument on your drum map, then add it.

Chances are (Particularly if you are using Finale or Garritan libraries), everything is fine with your drum map....you've just not entered it properly on the percussion staff.

Once you've confirmed that your percussion stave map DOES have the drum roll sample assigned, and that it's pointing to the right instrument in your VSTi or MIDI rack, use note mover to cycle through all of the possible instruments/techniques on the percussion staff (Click the select tool, then the note-mover tool, then click the note you're trying to turn into a drum roll....finally use the up and down arrow keys to cycle them...you should see text pop up by the drum note as you cycle, showing the current percussion instrument or technique that the note on the score is assigned to in the percussion staff/map) put your snare roll in the correct position on the staff. It should automatically take on the note shape assigned in the drum map at that point.

It can get confusing if you've several percussion playing techniques mapped to show up on the same line in the score. I.E. A one line snare staff, yet you intend to take advantage of a percussion library that includes things like unmetered flams, guzzes, rolls, rim shots, etc. That's why it's important to realize you can use the note mover to cycle through percussion instruments and techniques, etc. If you don't like where Finale puts them on the staff, and the note head shapes/articulation markings/etc. that it autoassigns, you can change all that in the percussion maps (found in the Score Manager). Study up on the drum mapping of Finale...once it clicks in your mind how that works, mapping percussion on your staves and getting the right sounds playing back is a breeze.

I'll try to come back and add some screen shots, but for now, explore from the "Score Manager'. Click the snare part so it highlights, then examine how the percussion stave is mapped out. You'll find access to these Finale attributes near the lower right hand corner of the Score Manager.

If you want to actually write out a rudiment strike by strike, copy the part to a new staff directly under it and write out the rudiments in full. Mute the 'visual stave that you want to print' that has abbreviated forms of notation and so forth from playback. Hide your fully notated staff. Alternatively, you could do your 'written out' rudiment on a different layer/voice, hide that, and then use the MIDI tool to pull the note-on velocity down to Zero on your 'visible rudiment written in abbreviated form).

There might also be options for building true MIDI playback rudiments, tuplets, ornaments, etc that work through Human Playback. I.E. sending every individual bounce of a roll on a regular one strike snare sound. This is highly likely but I'll have research a bit before I can comment on how that works in Finale (I've only been using it a few weeks now).

If you're using the Garritan sounds for Finale (or other Garritan Libraries)....checking the map and making sure your drum roll falls on the right spot for the mapping is most likely the easiest way to work it out.

Post Edited (Credo) : 2/11/2016 2:32:55 PM (GMT-6)

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