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MakeMusic Forum > Public Forums > Finale - Windows - FORUM HAS MOVED! > Ravel's Tzigane, Grace Notes and Violin Harmonics  Forum Quick Jump
 
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Korados
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   Posted 5/10/2016 9:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hello everybody,

I started to make a Midi file of Ravel's Tzigane with Finale because there seems to be no Midi recording of this piece. At least I didn't find one on the internet. But Finale is driving me nuts sometimes
and I have no idea about violin harmonics. I hope a violinist may help me here.

There are several intense measures, I attached them. In the first one, there's a big measure with many grace notes and harmonics which also exceeds the 4/4 time signature. First of all, Finale
doesn't let me make a tie to a grace note. Then, when I put in the grace notes and start the playback, Finale doesn't play the notes as the cursor comes through the measure, but it mixes
the notes into the previous measure and plays them simultaneously! Furthermore, I don't know how to make Finale play this measure because it's more than 4/4.

After a trill, there are some harmonics. I'm sorry but I never fully understood the notation of harmonics. Since TG Tools can only turn intervals into harmonics, I would have to know
which notes are sounded at the other harmonics. There are many measures after that one that contain single-note harmonics (I guess they are called natural harmonics?). And there's
one chord in the third picture with two diamond-shaped head and one normal-shaped head, which confuses me even more.

I hope you can help me figure this out!

Thank you very much for your help!
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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 5/10/2016 9:21 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Expecting Finale to operate as a DAW is somewhat unfair, as Finale is primarily a notation program.

In any event, which Finale program and version? MIDI or Garritan? Do you have a file we can examine?

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Korados
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   Posted 5/10/2016 10:56 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't know anything about DAWs. I looked at some of them but they are very confusing to me. Do I really need one of those? I have Finale 2014.5. I tried to playback with Midi but
I also have the Garritan sounds.
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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 5/10/2016 11:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I believe that getting the actual sound of harmonics might be limited to certain Garritan samples. Which ones do you own?

Also, the measure you mention which is not 4/4 is definitely a cadenza measure. For that, you might consider using real notes as opposed to grace notes as the playback might be more controllable. The size of the measure (number of beats) should be increased to accommodate the extra notes.

If you are new to Finale, I think you might want to start with some simpler pieces to get to know the Finale features, then graduate to the Ravel. Even experienced users would be hard pressed to get a decent MIDI file out of that.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Korados
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   Posted 5/10/2016 2:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you but I'm using Finale since 2007. I already made some Midis of classical music pieces which either have no Midi file on the internet or were never recorded at all (like Messiaen's Vingt Lecons d'Harmonie).
I just never encoutered these problems before. But you are right, Ravel is definitely another calibre.
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Michael Cook
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   Posted 5/10/2016 2:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here's some information about violin harmonics: andrewhugill.com/OrchestraManual/violin_muteharmonics.html. There are charts of natural and artificial harmonics and links to some youtube videos that give more explanations.


Michael Cook
Finale 3.0 - 2014.5
Mac OS 10.11.1

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 5/10/2016 2:21 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Korados said...
Thank you but I'm using Finale since 2007. I already made some Midis of classical music pieces which either have no Midi file on the internet or were never recorded at all (like Messiaen's Vingt Lecons d'Harmonie).


Messiaen's music is still well under copyright protection.
Making and distributing MIDI files of his music, without signed consent of the copyright owner, is a crime.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 and now 2014 under Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Korados
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   Posted 6/4/2016 4:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oh, I just read this here... Might be a month too late but: No, I'm doing these Midis for me and some friends. I have no intent to make money with them. I just do them for fun.

I even found an even better chart here: http://www.musicalobservations.com/publications/harmonics.html
This one really helped me understand it.

But, alas, someone beat me to it. There already is a Midi of Tzigane which was made some weeks before I started mine. But I still could contribute to it because it had many errors.

Post Edited (Korados) : 6/4/2016 4:31:38 PM (GMT-5)

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 6/4/2016 4:38 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Korados said...
Oh, I just read this here... Might be a month too late but: No, I'm doing these Midis for me and some friends. I have no intent to make money with them. I just do them for fun.

I even found an even better chart here: http://www.musicalobservations.com/publications/harmonics.html
This one really helped me understand it.

But, alas, someone beat me to it. There already is a Midi of Tzigane which was made some weeks before I started mine. But I still could contribute to it because it had many errors.


it actually makes no difference whether you are "making no money".
you are distributing it to other people (friends or otherwise), which is illegal.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 and now 2014 under Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 6/5/2016 8:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If you have been using Finale since 2007 and still have no understanding of violin harmonics, might I suggest you take a course on orchestration? There are many good ones offered on the net, including a free one by a highly respected orchestrator: Thomas Goss. At the very least you should invest in a couple of textbooks on orchestration. There are many good quality used ones available at Amazon--and other places, I am sure.


Finale 2014.5

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

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