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Richard N.
Musician



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   Posted 6/20/2016 1:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Not that I ever use it, but a bit of a turnaround from MakeMusic on this one.


http://www.finalemusic.com/blog/restrictions-may-apply/


Richard


Finale 2014.5 ~ S******* 8.3 ~ Sonar ~ Windows 10
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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 6/20/2016 2:15 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I call BS. There is no way to prevent copying a piece of music, just as there is no way to prevent copying literature, art, or anything else. Are they going to demand the removal of all OCR programming, text and music? Change the programming for phones and scanners so that they will only take pictures of faces? What if it's the face of the Mona Lisa? Will that not work?

Once the technological genie is out of the lamp, he can't be forced back in. Maybe it's time to revisit the copyright laws, rather than try to force their application beyond the original purpose.

Never pass a law that you can't enforce.

Of a greater concern is the subscription paradigm for the "new" SmartMusic. $400 a year, for 3 teachers and 50 students. What about smaller schools? Will Finale follow this plan on the next version?



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
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"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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dfwmd
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   Posted 6/20/2016 2:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I never use this functionality anyway. I use Neuratron Photoscore and export to an XML to bring into Finale. And I agree, this is rather ridiculous. I never scan in scores in order to cheat copyright. I do is to save time when I am orchestrating music that I have bought from MusicNotes or other online stores.


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Flint
silly bear



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   Posted 6/20/2016 3:09 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Translation: "Our relationship with SmartScore has been re-evaluated".


woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 10, 12GB RAM, frequently RTFM.

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read
 

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weeksc
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   Posted 6/20/2016 4:26 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I just informed Mr. Mackey that my band will no longer be playing any of his music due to his ridiculously stupid rant. I hate that it's come to that, but conscience requires I make a stand--miniscule as it may be.


--Clancy

Finale 2014d
Microsoft Surface Pro 3, i5 256
Windows 10
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I never claimed to know everything... I'm just right about the things I know![/color]

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 6/20/2016 4:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Who is Mr. Mackey?


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 6/20/2016 4:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This does seem like a mistake. There's plenty of public-domain music waiting to be scanned.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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weeksc
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   Posted 6/20/2016 5:04 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Mackey, the guy who stirred all this crap up to begin with.


--Clancy

Finale 2014d
Microsoft Surface Pro 3, i5 256
Windows 10
___________________________



I never claimed to know everything... I'm just right about the things I know![/color]

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



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   Posted 6/20/2016 7:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
This does seem like a mistake. There's plenty of public-domain music waiting to be scanned.


+1



Here I was looking forward to having public domain pdf's to arrange with relative ease.
Make Music needs to revisit this.

If not why do we need to upgrade to the next version?

Nothing earth shattering with out this feature.

I'll save my money for Dorico!!!


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.2.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

Post Edited (Ralph L. Bowers Jr.) : 6/20/2016 6:14:38 PM (GMT-5)

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Mark Adler
MakeMusic, Inc.



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   Posted 6/20/2016 7:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Mike,

SmartMusic has always been a subscription. The new SmartMusic actually offers a substantial savings over what we have offered in the past. Previously, every student paid $40 a year, so for the students alone in a class of 50, you would be looking at yearly cost of $2000.


Mark F. Adler
Notation Product Manager
MakeMusic, Inc.

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 6/20/2016 7:52 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
weeksc said...
John Mackey, the guy who stirred all this crap up to begin with.

Can you provide a link to his rant? Since there is also a famous person name John Mackey, I couldn't find it.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 6/20/2016 7:13:01 PM (GMT-5)

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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 6/20/2016 7:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mark Adler said...
Hi Mike,

SmartMusic has always been a subscription. The new SmartMusic actually offers a substantial savings over what we have offered in the past. Previously, every student paid $40 a year, so for the students alone in a class of 50, you would be looking at yearly cost of $2000.


Thanks for the clarification!



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Charles Lawrence
Registered Member



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   Posted 6/20/2016 10:00 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Even if, according to the blog, PDF import and scanning are removed from within future Finale versions, there are other ways to skin the proverbial cat.  SmartScore X2 Pro, the flagship program from MusiTek, the providers of the lite version of the scanning package currently bundled in Finale, provides for PDF scanning, amomg others.  It is standalone, not relying on Finale at all.  It can output to MusicXML which can then be imported into Finale.  PhotoScore Ultimate, previously mentioned, is the flagship product from Neuratron, and as mentioned, has the same functionality.  There is actually no need for a built-in scanning functionality in Finale.  For that matter, the scanning process can be completely independent from the music recognition process.  So long as the scanning package can process a source document, be it an original sheet of music, or a PDF file, then produce output that can be imported into the music recognition package, which processes the scanned image and produces a MusicXML output, that can in turn be imported into Finale, there is no needfor Finale to be burdened with a so called scanning functionality.  It is only a perceived convenience.  The legacy, but still quite viable program SharpEye comes to mind as an example.  It cannot as of itself process PDF's, but if the PDF can be converted to a BMP or TIF, then it can be used as input.

 


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

Windows 10 Professional (x64) (build 10586)
 
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Finale 2014.5.6359
Garritan GPO4.02


Cakewalk SONAR X3 - (X3e build 244) - x64, Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.0, Audacity 2.1.0
Sharpeye 2.68, PhotoScore Ultimate 7.0.2, SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8

"There is a world of difference between a person who has a big problem and a person who makes a problem big." – John Maxwell

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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 6/20/2016 10:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And in fact, the "Lite" version of the scanning program is about as useful as the built-in print-to-PDF. Which is to say, not very.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 6/21/2016 3:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
First, when I saw this PDF iPhone score import, I thought it was ridiculous.
But this one is even more ridiculous.

Where is MM going?


NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

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sjhands
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   Posted 6/21/2016 5:51 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Lucky I upgraded to 2014.5 recently - I'm guessing it will be my last...

To no longer improve certain functionality is one thing, but to remove it entirely, especially after just announcing an improvement to it, leaves me speechless.

While it's usefulness is questionable, in some cases it has saved me time without having to spend a large sum of money on a separate program that may or may not work any better. Removing it from Finale is not going to solve any suggested copyright issues, since it's simply a cut-down version of another program you can buy anyway - among others. So what exactly is being stopped by removing it (other than potential upgrades and sales...)?

Not to mention the many legitimate uses for the functionality.

MM - please reconsider what appears to be rash decision. Let the copyright holders go after those who infringe their rights - don't punish those who use it legitimately.

Steven.
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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 6/21/2016 5:56 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Finale owners can upgrade their bundled SmartScore Lite to the standalone Pro version for $199.

www.musitek.com/store/SSFinUp.html


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.4)
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Flint
silly bear



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   Posted 6/21/2016 10:42 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
sjhands said...

MM - please reconsider what appears to be rash decision. Let the copyright holders go after those who infringe their rights - don't punish those who use it legitimately.


Which is a better target for an aggrieved party to sue, thousands of single users, or the company that provides the software to steal copyrighted works?

I'm betting that there's a legal issue that MM wants to rid itself of...


woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 10, 12GB RAM, frequently RTFM.

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read
 

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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 6/21/2016 10:42 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
Finale owners can upgrade their bundled SmartScore Lite to the standalone Pro version for $199.

www.musitek.com/store/SSFinUp.html


And they should. Using the Pro version will go a long way towards quieting the "scanning sucks" crowd.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



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   Posted 6/21/2016 11:29 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Flint said...
sjhands said...

MM - please reconsider what appears to be rash decision. Let the copyright holders go after those who infringe their rights - don't punish those who use it legitimately.


Which is a better target for an aggrieved party to sue, thousands of single users, or the company that provides the software to steal copyrighted works?

I'm betting that there's a legal issue that MM wants to rid itself of...


Might very well be the case, but with only 64 bit, loading sounds faster, and Transposed Instrument entry for the next offering how many of us will really want to upgrade this go round anyway.

Like I said above.....might as well save the upgrade cost for the next version of Finale and just purchase Dorico.


And, Mike.
I was looking forward to saving steps that I already use as you'll note in my signature.


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.2.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

Post Edited (Ralph L. Bowers Jr.) : 6/21/2016 2:31:39 PM (GMT-5)

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 6/21/2016 4:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't get the righteous indignation. Just use the third-party program. The built-in lite version didn't work well, anyway, so there's nothing lost.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

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sjhands
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   Posted 6/21/2016 5:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Flint said...

Which is a better target for an aggrieved party to sue, thousands of single users, or the company that provides the software to steal copyrighted works?

I'm betting that there's a legal issue that MM wants to rid itself of...


I'm not sure which lawyer is giving them advice, but I hope they tell MM to stop selling Finale, since I can use that to manually input copyrighted works and print them, photocopy them, share them. Better yet, maybe Microsoft should stop selling Windows since it's provides the OS which facilitates breaching of copyright across many industries and so on...

Motet said...

I don't get the righteous indignation. Just use the third-party program. The built-in lite version didn't work well, anyway, so there's nothing lost.


Unfortunately US$200 is a lot of money (over AUS$400) to spend on something I only use occasionally, and for my purposes the lite version works well enough to not be able to justify the cost.
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Derrek
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   Posted 6/21/2016 5:46 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So you'll stiff Finale because scanning is crucial to you...

...but you won't spend money for a music-OCR program because you don't use it that often.

Not sure I follow your logic.


Finale 2014d - Windows 7
GPO 4, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

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sjhands
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   Posted 6/21/2016 6:26 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Derrek said...

So you'll stiff Finale because scanning is crucial to you...

...but you won't spend money for a music-OCR program because you don't use it that often.


You've made a few assumptions there.

I've never said scanning is crucial for me - it's a nice-to-have that is being removed for dubious reasons.

I'll keep using Finale, but I won't be upgrading anymore since the current version does the job and I can't see anything that amazing coming in the future of the product that's worth losing functionality that I find useful at times.
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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 6/21/2016 7:30 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You can always keep whatever Finale version you have now to scan occasionally, save the file, and open it with a newer version of Finale. Pretend the old one is a free scanning program. If you're only doing it occasionally, the extra step shouldn't be onerous.

I agree, given what we know, MM's decision doesn't seem to make sense. I don't see the vendors of text OCR getting in trouble from authors or book publishers. But losing the built-in "lite" scanning doesn't seem like a great loss.

The band composer has a point that MM should honor the "don't print/save" PDF attribute to mean "don't import to Finale." I wonder why they didn't. But I think he overestimates the ease with which one of his perusal scores could be turned into a set of parts. Most people would be happy to spend a couple hundred bucks or whatever it costs rather than spend many, many hours fixing the scan errors and formatting, printing, and binding a dozen or two parts. And schools--I'm guessing his main customers--are unlikely to flout the law like that.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
Finale Transposition Chart

Post Edited (Motet) : 6/21/2016 6:52:32 PM (GMT-5)

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