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OCTO.
The radical answers.



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   Posted 6/22/2016 1:46 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I could guess, but I might be wrong that MM is re-coding Finale and there is no chance to have it implemented at the time. Maybe, just saying maybe...


NOTAT.IO - NOTATION FORUM

Finale 2014.d Yosemite

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 6/22/2016 2:31 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ralph L. Bowers Jr. said...
with only 64 bit, loading sounds faster, and Transposed Instrument entry for the next offering how many of us will really want to upgrade this go round anyway.

Those are the features that they have chosen to advertise so far. It remains to be seen whether those are the "only" advantages. Didn't someone recently say that they didn't want new features, just bug fixes, and would gladly pay for that?


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.4)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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weeksc
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   Posted 6/22/2016 10:35 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
@OCTO I'll wait for that version. Skipping this one on principle, as I rarely use scanning anyway. I know too many people who really need it, and can't justify the higher cost of the pro version. Plus, if these yahoos are successful in bullying Makemusic, how long will it be before they go after the other software? Slippery slope and all that...


--Clancy

Finale 2014d
Microsoft Surface Pro 3, i5 256
Windows 10
___________________________



I never claimed to know everything... I'm just right about the things I know![/color]

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



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   Posted 6/22/2016 12:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
Ralph L. Bowers Jr. said...
with only 64 bit, loading sounds faster, and Transposed Instrument entry for the next offering how many of us will really want to upgrade this go round anyway.

Those are the features that they have chosen to advertise so far. It remains to be seen whether those are the "only" advantages. Didn't someone recently say that they didn't want new features, just bug fixes, and would gladly pay for that?



While I myself have never said just give me bug fixes and I'll be happy.
I have said 64 bit is good for those who want to use more modern sound libraries (I don't have that need), but a good deal do. And along with that more rapid loading of those libraries which I don't need either, but some do.
These are needed for the future of the application.

Transposed Instruments on entry is great and I love that. But, not enough to make me part with my money. The pdf feature in combination with the others is what pushed it over the top for me in my desire to upgrade.
Would have saved some steps with what I do now with Smart Score Pro, and I would imagine some others not seeing a need to purchase SmartScore Pro at all.


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.2.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



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   Posted 6/23/2016 7:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Even MuseScore has an experimental service for converting pdf to a readable application file.
MuseScore uses: /audiveris.kenai.com/

I'm also quite sure that other applications will add this feature to their applications as well.
Can it be misused? Of course it could, but on a limited basis I'm sure especially when the stave limit is enforced as originally conceived by MM.


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.2.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

Post Edited (Ralph L. Bowers Jr.) : 6/23/2016 6:57:54 PM (GMT-5)

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bvstudios
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   Posted 6/25/2016 4:28 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Mackey, the guy who stirred all this crap up to begin with.
--Clancy

After a bit of a search, I think I found Mr Mackey (http://www.ostimusic.com/), but I can't locate anything on his site that speaks to this issue. In fact, the last blog update over there is coming up 17 months old, and there's no trace of an issue with scanning to be found in it. Likewise, a troll through the blogs at MM doesn't come up with much, aside from a note in Fred's June 20th post (above) that there was an "energized" discussion.

I'd really like to see that discussion. I would really have liked to be part of it, as I am one of those who uses PD works as self-training fodder for my own practice. But so far, I haven't found it, so I assume it was in the form of a series of memos to MM from some concerned composers and rights holders. Still, it seems to have been a complete cave with little or no evidence offered to the majority of us who use the product on a daily basis that this turnaround is the better way.

It's all quite curious.


K M Frye




Finale 2014.5, PM 2011, 2010, 2007, 2005, 2003, 2000

GPO4, WORLD, JABB3

M-Audio, Boss JS8, Roland VSC-55 Sound Canvas, Rhodes 660 workstation, Roland MC-50 composer (yeh- it's old, but it works if you can find the floppies), Reaper 4.32
Windows 7

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 6/25/2016 6:09 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
bvstudios said...

I'd really like to see that discussion

Most of it was on FaceBook: on MM's official page, and also on a Finale user group.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.4)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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ebiggs1
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   Posted 6/25/2016 11:22 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
64 bit is almost mandatory in year 2016. Makemusic has to do that.

Scanning and other feature sets that have been a part of the program for years and years should not be removed. IMHO, of course. This is a time when the other great music notation software is adding features.

There may be folks that never use scanning and then there are folks that rely on it. I never thought it worked all that well but I know others that were happy with what it did.

Mr. Adler is the captain and I sincerely hope he steers the ship in the right direction. I expressed my thoughts directly to him. So should you all if you feel like it was a worthwhile feature. Recovering form big mistakes may not be possible.


Music makes the difference!
Finale 2014.5
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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 6/25/2016 11:28 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
One can possibly scan into another program and then save as xml and import into Finale. However, one might see things in the other program that might attract away from Finale. Time will tell if the decision was wise.

Zuill


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Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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John Ruggero
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   Posted 6/26/2016 8:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I found this interesting but troubling:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/MakeMusic-Reviews-E4324.htm


Mac mini (OS 10.8.5) with dual monitors, Finale 2014d (Finale 2011 as a backup) with GPO 4
Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
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The better the composer, the better the notation.

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Ron.
Composer



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   Posted 6/26/2016 10:05 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tempest in a teapot. The technology is out there which means that soon there will be plethora of applications offered for free on the net, just like .mp3 conversion programs. MakeMusic should do what it does best: focus on notation.


Finale 2014.5

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 6/26/2016 10:30 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
John Ruggero said...
I found this interesting but troubling:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/MakeMusic-Reviews-E4324.htm


what was troubling?
that there are some employees who'll gripe about anything?
even the most perfect work environment will have some of its employees finding crap to nitpick about.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 and now 2014 under Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

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ebiggs1
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   Posted 6/26/2016 10:55 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I didn't find it that troubling either. The removal of a feature set is what is troubling. We've been there!


Music makes the difference!
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Zoots
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   Posted 6/26/2016 2:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't think anybody has mentioned that perhaps MM just doesn't want to pay any money to Musitek for licensing the Finale specific lite version.

In my wild speculations, I often wondered just what sort of an arrangement Musitek and MM had. There were some annoying simple deficiencies in SmartScrore Pro such as ties and slurs were not different colors that never got corrected despite complaints. In my conspiracy theory mode I wondered if it was deliberate to appease MM. Funny thing the last patch fixed the slur/tie color problem and now Musitek is being divorced by MM.


Finale 2012c
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ebiggs1
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   Posted 6/26/2016 2:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"... MM just doesn't want to pay any money to Musitek ..."

I don't think this has iota of a thing to do with it. Nada!


Music makes the difference!
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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 6/26/2016 2:46 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't find the glassdoor.com thing particularly troubling either. It's to be expected that there were people unhappy with the move to Colorado, and overall people seem positive. It's not like Finale was trouble-free before. Sometimes a shake-up is good--time will tell!


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
Windows 7, MIDI input
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bpalm
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   Posted 6/27/2016 5:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
weeksc said...
John Mackey, the guy who stirred all this crap up to begin with.

Can you provide a link to his rant? Since there is also a famous person name John Mackey, I couldn't find it.


https://www.facebook.com/johnmackey/posts/10208306541915226
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bpalm
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   Posted 6/27/2016 5:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And if you're interested in the actual facts without emotion added, this entire read is worthy of your time.
http://www.sibeliusblog.com/opinion/finales-new-importing-feature-should-be-welcomed-not-scorned/
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petey forrest
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   Posted 6/27/2016 9:27 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
bpalm said...
And if you're interested in the actual facts without emotion added, this entire read is worthy of your time.
http://www.sibeliusblog.com/opinion/finales-new-importing-feature-should-be-welcomed-not-scorned/


Thanks for the link! That was very interesting reading!

Petey
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John Ruggero
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   Posted 6/28/2016 8:12 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What I found troubling at glassdoor was that:

1. while the previous work environment was spoken of glowingly by the employees, Finale has had a problematic last few years.

2. if it is true the 2/3s of the staff did not remain with the company, as mentioned in the reviews, it means that a majority of the old programmers are gone. The new programmers must become familiar with thousands of lines of code, slowing progress and possibly leading to new problems. But, of course, it might also lead to a fresh approach.

3. The recent decision concerning scanning is puerile and lends credence to concerns about the new management, as expressed in some of the reviews.


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Kurzweil Mark 5 with M-Audio Midisport 2 x 2, Adobe InDesign CS4 SmartScore X Pro, JW Plug-ins
www.cantilenapress.com

The better the composer, the better the notation.

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 6/28/2016 10:28 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
They might be interested in Mob Programming. It is the cutting edge in clean programming.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Motet
Isorhythmic



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   Posted 6/28/2016 11:49 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Since so many bugs weren't getting fixed in Finale before the move, I'm hoping for the fresh approach.

The whole scanning thing is puzzling and it is a concern that management caved so easily. There seems to be a misunderstanding of all around of how music OCR works and how well it works (or, I should say doesn't often work). And even with a very clean PDF and perfect recognition I'm skeptical that it would be practical for someone to take one of Mr. Mackey's perusal scores of a concert band piece and produce a set of parts. Anyone who has ever made parts with Finale knows there's a fair amount of manual work involved.

Of course, Mackey and Higdon are musicians, not techies. Perhaps the sales video (or was it a blog post) of someone pointing their phone at a score and winding up with printed music worked a little too well.


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 6/28/2016 12:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Copyright infringement would be easier to prove if the music was scanned, as opposed to entered manually. So, in a sense, the scanning paradigm could benefit copyright holders.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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N. Grossingink
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   Posted 6/28/2016 12:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
Of course, Mackey and Higdon are musicians, not techies. Perhaps the sales video (or was it a blog post) of someone pointing their phone at a score and winding up with printed music worked a little too well.


That's what I've been thinking. In the video, Mark Adler takes a photo of a Bach Chorale, imports it into Finale via the scanning software and plays it back. Sounds like everything is there.

I wonder what the result would have been had Mark photographed the first several pages of Brahms Symphony #3. I'm guessing it would have been less than spectacular, probably a lot less.
The relative complexity of the Brahms is probably similar to most of Mr. Mackey's or Ms. Higdon's scores.

N.


OSX Mavericks 10.9.5
Finale 2011c, 2012c for production work
Finale 2014.5

TgTools, Patterson Plugins, JW Change and Staff Polyphony, QuicKeys 4
Mac Mini 2.4 Ghz Intel, 8GB RAM
New Belgium Fat Tire Ale

1970—New York, New York: Times music critic Harold Schoenberg says, “Trombone players are like ministers—quiet, dull, very moral. Nobody ever heard of a rebellious trombone player.”

Post Edited (N. Grossingink) : 6/28/2016 2:21:07 PM (GMT-5)

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Daz
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   Posted 6/28/2016 1:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
N. Grossingink said...
Just like most of Mr. Mackey's or Ms. Higdon's scores.

N.


Ooooooh!



Cheers...


Daz. :o)

------------------------
Finale 2006-2011 - Win7 64 bit


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