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Dan Powers
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   Posted 6/28/2016 4:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Welcome news!
www.finalemusic.com/blog/rewire-support-next-version-finale/


Dan Powers
Finale 2012, GPO 4, JABB 3, also CAMB for Kontakt (haven't crossgraded to ARIA yet, sorry)
 

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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 6/28/2016 6:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Great news for those who need it, indeed.

Hope it works as advertised.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Flint
silly bear



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   Posted 6/28/2016 7:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Don't care, other than we can stop hearing people whine about it incessantly with every new release.


woodwind specialist and doubler - Finale 2014d using Speedy Entry - no capslock, GPO 4 Full, Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Windows 10, 12GB RAM, frequently RTFM.

If the composer says in effect to the performer: "I do not care whether you perform my music or not," we cannot argue the matter. But if he indicates: "I want you to perform and respond to this music," then his fundamental duty is to write his music so that it is accessible to interpretation. When the performer cannot approach the composer's meaning because of capriciously obscure notation, he may in effect say to the composer: "Why should I bother to puzzle out your music?" - Gardner Read
 

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Jeremy Levy
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   Posted 6/28/2016 8:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The good news is that they realized movie playback would best be dealt with through a DAW instead of directly in Finale. Should be helpful.


Jeremy Levy
Composer, Arranger, Orchestrator
Los Angeles, CA
www.jlevymusic.com
Finale 2011-2014.5
OSX 10.9.5

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 6/28/2016 9:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Let's not jump to any conclusions. When pdf import was announced, a revolt occurred and the feature was cancelled. Let's see what happens after this most recent announcement. Possibly it will be a threat to someone and the feature will also be nixed.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Ralph L. Bowers Jr.
Polymathist



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   Posted 6/28/2016 10:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
Let's not jump to any conclusions. When pdf import was announced, a revolt occurred and the feature was cancelled. Let's see what happens after this most recent announcement. Possibly it will be a threat to someone and the feature will also be nixed.

Zuill



That pdf debacle still rankles me.
What are those composers ;) going to sue the makers of SmartScore or PhotoScore? I highly doubt that seeing as they have been out for over a decade each now.

It would have been nice if MakeMusic would quit neutering itself over fairy dust threats. We shall see.


Finale 2010b, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 TGTools Pro, Patterson plugins, JW plugins (current for each Finale Instalation)
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.2.0, Write Score Sound Sets, TMT Publisher Bundle Plugins, Bob Zawalich plugins, Dolet 6.6
Print Music 2004, 2010a, 2011a, 2014a
Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3, Notion 4, [Notion 5, (bought but not installed)update finally installed]
Pro Tools 9.5, Reaper
Kontakt 5
GPO4, GPO5, World Instruments
SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro, PhotoScore Ultimate 6 & 7 & 8.04 ( 7 has some utility----best of those available, 8 has some issues that need fixing)
M-Audio "Oxygen 25" Midi input keyboard (recent addition 2014)
Systems (5) // Windows XP Pro (32bit), [email protected] Windows 7 Pro, 8.1 Pro, Windows 10 64 bit, 4GB - 16GB RAM
Paper & Pencil

BMus, MM (Musicology)

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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 6/28/2016 11:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The whole composer vs. scanning controversy is blowing smoke from an unlikely orifice. One comment was that scanning was a threat because it made it too easy to enter a long score into Finale, for whatever nefarious reason we chose. Should Finale make Simple or Speedy unuseable, because we might choose to take the time to key in the notes? Or send it to Lower Elbonia, to be done on the cheap?



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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ebiggs1
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   Posted 6/29/2016 12:46 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"It would have been nice if MakeMusic would quit neutering itself over fairy dust threats."

The deal is Makemusic can't now go back and say OK we screwed up and are going to re-install scanning. They have to save face and live with a poorly considered decision.
If I recall correctly the other big notation program has scanning. Even some lesser ones do. I wonder if they can sleep at night?


Music makes the difference!
Finale 2014.5
Dell XPS 8500 Intel Core i7 CPU @ 3.40GHz
16 GB RAM, 64 bit OS Windows 10

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Mike Rosen
himself



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   Posted 6/29/2016 12:57 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And if they did choose to reverse the decision, then the guy would pull his work from SmartMusic, again.

Finale is really in a lose-lose situation, as far as public perception is concerned. But since I use the full version of SmartScore, the whole argument is moot. Pulling the scanning operation matters about as much as removing the native Print to PDF function, since they both (don't) work equally well. Now we may get fewer postings concerning how bad scanning is, so maybe that's an upside.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Zuill
"The Troll"



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   Posted 6/29/2016 1:00 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Removing the pdf feature was a MakeMusic Brexit. Fortunately, it didn't cause a stock market crash.

As far as ReWire, the recording and movie industry might be up in arms about it, as it will be a huge threat to their livelihood if Finale users try to make a movie that would put them out of business.

Zuill


"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
 
Win 7 64bit, 2011b, 2012c, 2014d, 2014.5 
 
Favorite Forum quote: "Please, everybody, IGNORE THE TROLL!"

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Dr. Wiggy
Early music: modern methods



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   Posted 6/29/2016 5:27 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There were lots of complaints about the Video Window not working in some recent versions of Finale, so I hope this answers the needs of those people.


"This is me helping."

Finale 2014.5, 2012 MacMini; 2012 MacBook Pro (10.11.4)
Edirol FA-66; Roland A-49, HP Laserjet 5200 DTN
Ancient Groove Music www.ancientgroove.co.uk

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Derrek
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   Posted 6/29/2016 11:58 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wiggy said...
There were lots of complaints about the Video Window not working in some recent versions of Finale, so I hope this answers the needs of those people.
Someone is bound to complain about the removal of the movie window now, as they did with the music-OCR feature, but in reality MM seems to be following the basic business advice to "stick to your knitting" by focusing on notation and basic playback. That's probably a good idea until they know where Dorico is headed. Adding Rewire will lessen the impact of Dorico's announced intention to link up with Cubase at some future date. Rewire should let Finale users work more easily with Sonar, Cubase, or a number of other DAW's.


Finale 2014d - Windows 7
GPO 4, JABB 3, World Instruments
TG Tools Full, (Sonar Platinum)

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” — Groucho Marx

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bpalm
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   Posted 6/29/2016 6:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Flint said...
Don't care, other than we can stop hearing people whine about it incessantly with every new release.


Sick burn bro. Some of us care and haven't whined on the forums before. You don't need it don't use it. :) Peace.
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Credo
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   Posted 6/29/2016 10:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Smart move, and long overdue. Rewire will be very welcome here!

1. Focus on Notation/Engraving itself, and ease of use.

2. Focus on optimizing Finale so it doesn't keep at least one CPU core going full throttle at pretty much all times. I could be wrong, but I assume much of this inefficiency is due to an archaic 32bit VST host that was designed when a 2 core Pentium Core Duo was considered pretty high end stuff.

3. In the 'short haul'...I'd even be OK with ditching the WAY outdated built in Finale plugin host, and bundling something like Bidule with Finale (perhaps with a more modern looking set of skins). It would seem they already have at least some sort of relationship with Plogue seeing as so much of the Finale playback engine revolves around ARIA.

We're already having to resort to third party hosts to get into 64bit, or VST3 plugins. VST2.4 is aging out fast, and it's getting more difficult to find modern plugins in a 32bit 2.4 dll format.

I'd love to see a way to communicate those VST commands between Finale's playback/expression system and ARIA inside a rewired Bidule instance (I.E. auto-load programs via the Score Manager). Could OSC (supported by Bidule, Reaper, and more) be used for this sort of VST command bridge?

My thinking is that by separating the 'score module' from the 'audio' playback engine all together....Finale developers could focus on notation and engraving.

Finale could come in different versions at different price points.
Examples:
1. Just the score module with full Rewire support of as many MIDI, rtpMIDI, and OSC ports as one likes. This could be sold as an 'extension' for whatever third party DAW or Host an end user might already have and wish to use.

2. A version bundled with a special Finale optimized version of Bidule as the host, and the full slate of Garritan/ARIA based Finale sound libraries. Technically it would be using rewire and OSC under the hood, but would be set up in a way that's as easy to use as the current VST host, with the 'power features of Bidule' deeper down in the UI for people who want/need that.

In the long-run, Finale is going to need to start looking at full VST3 support. Dorico is going to benefit from full scale 'individual note expression'. I.E. What we are now doing with channel CC messages, VST3 can already do independently with individual notes. That's going to open up a lot of doors in terms of what they can do with cutting, pasting, and dragging things around while retaining any expression data assigned to individual play-back elements.

Maybe, just maybe, a short term divorce of Finale from any 'built in' play back engine at all would be beneficial.

Post Edited (Credo) : 6/29/2016 9:56:26 PM (GMT-5)

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Mike Rosen
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   Posted 6/29/2016 10:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Credo,
This has been suggested many times over the years: a Finale Notation version, and a Finale Playback version. But nothing has ever come of it.



Mike Rosen
www.specialmillwork.com

Bass with Choir of the Sound www.choirofthesound.org
Volunteer copyist (The Gang of Twelve) for the Barbershop Harmony Society
FINALE TIPS at www.specialmillwork.com/finale-tips-and-tricks/index.html

Finale 2014.5 on El Capitan
Simple Entry, QWERTY keyboard, numberpad. That's my system, and I'm stickin' to it.

"As a musician, he's a damn fine woodworker."

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Credo
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   Posted 6/29/2016 11:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mike Rosen said...
Credo,
This has been suggested many times over the years: a Finale Notation version, and a Finale Playback version. But nothing has ever come of it.


I do believe you. At this point Finale has more competition on the horizon than ever before, and it has a good deal of 'catching up' to do in terms of playback and user friendliness.

I don't know what kind of resources they have at hand to come out with the next 'cutting edge' platform....so I'm just 'resounding' all the old suggestions that could keep them very much alive and in the game.

1. Pull the built in host out of Finale, and replace it with some variant of Bidule that comes with the Finale bundle and bridges in nicely (with the existing Finale expression/playback/translation system). That at least gets folks access to 64bit AU and VST3 plugins, and people could keep right on using the excellent Garritan libraries with very little if any noticeable change in their established 'work flow'. It seems to me that all Bidule would need to do this, is some sort of bridge to parse the VST commands between Finale and ARIA instances open in Bidule (I.E. Tell an ARIA instance running in Bidule to load the Violin Solo KS program into slot 1).

2. Put a lean and mean power user Scoring module on the market that cost a considerable amount less than the others, and make sure it has all the tools to sync up and communicate with the DAWs and Hosts of user choice....

3. Optimize existing Finale code (for engraving/layout/printing), and make it easier to use (also with tablets and the like).

4. Start working VST3 support into the code. That opens the doors to keeping expression data bound to individual notes, as opposed to everything on a MIDI channel. (Easier drag and drop, copy/paste possibilities will grow exponentially given that capability).

Dorico has the advantage of being launched by Yamaha/Steinberg...both of which have buckets full of cutting edge sound engines to build upon, while also happening to own many of the proprietary industry standards (I.E. VST). That dev crew really can 'focus on the engraving', while leaving the sound engine stuff to larger, long and well established, 'audio/MIDI' engineering teams.

It's going to be very difficult to compete with those sound engines, pay off royalties and or wait in line for the 'protocol' dev kits, AND match or beat price points....and if Sibelius isn't on their top game, they might eventually learn the same lesson. They also keep ignoring the plug in host and play-back engine, while insisting on building everything around the one they have, while refusing to build 'full sync' technologies into what little ReWire support they offer (No assignable rewire MIDI ports at all, stereo audio only, and it is not full duplex, only has partial support for synchronization with external hosts).

Another idea for long range consideration might be....
To start pushing for a Linux/BSD variant, with a long range goal to gain independence from proprietary protocol royalties for the 'base' versions of Finale. It'd have to be a long and patient plan...but people favoring Linux distros might prove to be a market worth tapping. Particularly if Finale wishes to garner favor with 'Music Educators'.

Post Edited (Credo) : 6/29/2016 11:10:26 PM (GMT-5)

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ebiggs1
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   Posted 6/29/2016 11:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Finale has more competition on the horizon than ever before, and it has a good deal of 'catching up' to do in terms of playback and user friendliness.

I think everybody sees this except Makemusic. I made the suggestion right to the top and got rejected as just gimicks.
Being on the out side looking in maybe there just isn't enough resources to do it.


Music makes the difference!
Finale 2014.5
Dell XPS 8500 Intel Core i7 CPU @ 3.40GHz
16 GB RAM, 64 bit OS Windows 10

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ttw
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   Posted 6/30/2016 3:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Removal of scanning sounds like it's being driven by the legal department. Gun makers have been sued for people stealing guns made by them and then later used in a crime. Bars can be sued for someone having been drinking there killing a person in a DUI accident. (These are not common but do happen.) It's a consequence of a legal theory of "partial responsibility but full liability" that became popular from the 1960s onward. The idea is that a provider "should have known" that someone would misuse a product. Skeptics of this theory call it the "deep pockets" theory; one doesn't sut the person responsible but does sue the richest associated target.

I did once receive a computer program on a disk where the package had the warning that this package was not suitable to prop up a ladder.

To me this removal of scanning (which I probably wouldn't use) is like limiting access to decongestants because a few people misuse them.


Finale 2014.5
GWI, GPO4, GPO5, JABB 3, Steinway Basic, COMB2

Windows 10 Pro HP Envy Desktop
Windows 10 Home HP Portable

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