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Juliepiano
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   Posted 8/17/2016 3:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What is the pdf problem mentioned by weeksc?


Julie Johnson
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J. Johnson Music Publications
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bpalm
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   Posted 8/17/2016 3:14 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MakeMusic removed completely the feature to scan in PDF. Broad stroke move because of a vocal uninformed minority with misinformation and fear. Company caved, and so there is zero PDF integration with Finale. Finale, the "standard" in music notation. :)
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Juliepiano
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   Posted 8/17/2016 3:21 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Do you mean scanning an existing music score and having Finale read it, or printing from Finale to pdf?


Julie Johnson
Author, Basics of Keyboard Theory and Julie Johnson's Guide to AP Music Theory
J. Johnson Music Publications
www.bktmusic.com

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bpalm
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   Posted 8/17/2016 3:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I mean everything. Zero PDF "integration" in the new version of Finale.
I'm not counting the simple action to save your OWN score as a PDF. You can always print your own scores to PDF, of course.
We're talking about importing here. Which is huge for us copyists and professional engravers. Scanning is a HUGE time saver. Finale was never going to bypass protections on PDF - that was fear and misinformation - and sadly the company caved to a few vocal few. Oh well.

Begin here:
http://www.finalemusic.com/blog/importing-pdf-files-next-version-finale/

Then here:
http://www.finalemusic.com/blog/restrictions-may-apply/

Finally, this.
It is the decision of MakeMusic to remove the PDF import functionality from the upcoming release of Finale. In fact, we are going to take a further step and remove scanning functionality entirely from Finale. We are serious about the integrity of music rights.

No scanning at all.
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Zuill
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   Posted 8/17/2016 3:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So, even scanning your own music will no longer be an option. The workaround is to use an earlier version of Finale for that.

Zuill


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bpalm
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   Posted 8/17/2016 3:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
So, even scanning your own music will no longer be an option. The workaround is to use an earlier version of Finale for that.

Zuill


Confirmed. Yes. Correcto.
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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 8/17/2016 5:37 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Please understand that scanning music for the purpose of subsequent interpretation of said scan as music was never a native function of Finale. The capability was a sub-function provided by a lite version of such software that was bundled with Finale. There is nothing to prevent you from scanning a piece of music into digital file(s), and then using those file(s) as input to a music interpretation program. The two processes are completely separate and usually are not combined into one program either except via the interpretation being again a sub-function of the scanning.

The bundled functionality was less that ideal and provided sub-par results in the majority of cases. If you are a professional engraver as you claim, surely you didn't use the bundled package, SmartScore Lite, for anything but the most elementary music. Other packages external and completely separate from Finale are used for all but very simple scores. Only Musitek, with SmartScore Lite, or their professional product SmartScore X2 Pro, provided the capability to integrate the interpreted music directly into Finale. All other packages of which I am familiar use MusicXML as an intermediary means to get the interpreted music into a Finale document.

The fact that SmartScore Lite will no longer be bundled into Finale will not prevent you from using any of the more powerful professional methods. You must, of course, own the said professional packages.

Regarding exporting a Finale document to PDF, again most power users do not rely on the built-in PDF export in Finale, but rather use bug free PDF virtual printers, of which there are many available, e.g. CutePDF, Adobe, PDFCreator, to name a few.

Any consternation over the loss of these features in the newest Finale is misplaced, IMHO.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

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bpalm
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   Posted 8/17/2016 5:48 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Charles Lawrence said...

Regarding exporting a Finale document to PDF, again most power users do not rely on the built-in PDF export in Finale, but rather use bug free PDF virtual printers, of which there are many available, e.g. CutePDF, Adobe, PDFCreator, to name a few.

Any consternation over the loss of these features in the newest Finale is misplaced, IMHO.


CutePDF is the best!
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weeksc
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   Posted 8/17/2016 6:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I actually use Finale's built in SmartScore Lite, as it suits my needs, and I *am* a professional engraver/composer/arranger. Most of us neither need, nor wish to spend money on, a package we won't use all the features of. Most of my scans are of simple single-line parts or scores that the lite version handles with ease. Yes, I know I can keep the prior version of Finale around, but that still means using a separate program--two things to get one thing done. Why do that when it used to be a simple couple of mouse clicks?

The bigger reason for me, though, is the fact that MM caved. I simply won't reward such stupid behavior.


--Clancy

Finale 2014.5
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Windows 10 Pro Anniversary Edition
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CraigP
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   Posted 8/17/2016 8:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
weeksc said...
I actually use Finale's built in SmartScore Lite, as it suits my needs, ... The bigger reason for me, though, is the fact that MM caved.


Almost all of these "lite bundle" deals are co-marketing agreements where the add-on supplier provides a limited version of their product at greatly reduced cost (to the partner) or at no cost. The main reason for doing this is because they hope to covert a percentage of the partner's customers to purchase the full add-on product. I have purchased the full SmartScore product. The integration with Finale was nice, but not all that important, as it can save to MusicXML.

I don't know about the "caved" bit. I doubt this has anything to do with copyrights and has everything to do with the low volume of business that SmartScore was getting. They probably declined to make this offer available for the new release.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing accounts for the deletion of the Band-in-a-box harmonizing plug-in. There is no work-around for that one, other than to maintain multiple versions of Finale.

This all seems like very little function for 2 years of delay. The company featured a photo showing 12 people on the team. My guess is that this is the team that supports ALL the music products, and there may be more like one or two coders actually involved daily with Finale. The team that Steinberg has working on Dorico seems to be about 10 times this size. So that probably gives us a good feel for what rate of development to expect. If I thought there would actually be significant development ahead on Finale, I would probably chip in my $149 just to help the cause. But for me, this looks like a step backwards, considering that 2014.5 has been working OK for me on Windows 10.

To put this incremental development thing in perspective, at the time that Cakewalk was acquired by Gibson (2 years ago,) they launched a strategy of incremental development, promising to deliver significant fixes and new features on a regular basis, approximately monthly. And they asked their users to pay on an affordable subscription basis. There was a certain amount of trust involved because, frankly, things had not gone so well in the prior period under ownership by Roland. But in fact, they have delivered exactly what they said. I think they have far surpassed the expectations of even their biggest long-term fans. Just have a look at the features that have been added in recent months. This is major stuff: /www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Rolling-Updates#2016.07

This two year cycle to get even the most basic bugs fixed (or not) just doesn't make any sense in today's commercial world. Maybe that was acceptable 15 years ago, but it seems to me the Finale product is lost in another world at this stage.

P.S. For the Mac users out there, let me mention that in addition to all this monthly functionality added to Sonar, they are also going to start supporting the MAC environment this year for the first time. Anybody looking at Dorico would probably want to move to Cubase, but Sonar is a really great DAW with a fantastically supportive user base.
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weeksc
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   Posted 8/17/2016 9:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"I doubt this has anything to do with copyrights and has everything to do with the low volume of business that SmartScore was getting. They probably declined to make this offer available for the new release."

Not according to Finale's own blog post. Plus the composers who started this tempest in a tea-pot are crowing about a win. Again, the optics are what counts here, and MM has given every appearance of having caved to ridiculous and unfounded demands.

Hence... no money from me this cycle. I can wait.


--Clancy

Finale 2014.5
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ttw
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   Posted 8/18/2016 12:17 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The legal climate seems to be against MM in this case. I wouldn't be surprised that some lawyer pointed out to MM that should one use their software for felonious copying that they could be liable. It's the same philosophy that suggests blaming gun manufacturer (or knife makers) for the felonious of the gun or knife. For that matter, bartenders can be held liable for serving someone who later gets a DUI.

It's called the "Doctrine of Deep Pockets." The idea is that everyone who may have contributed to a crime (or accident) in a small way can be held liable for all monetary losses and penalties. Lawyers worry about these things.


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CraigP
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   Posted 8/18/2016 12:38 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ttw said...
I wouldn't be surprised that some lawyer pointed out to MM that should one use their software for felonious copying that they could be liable.


Such a discussion could certainly have happened, but that would be a preposterous argument legally. By that same argument, a person selling pen or paper could be held equally liable if a person were to copy some music longhand - or use a copying machine. Yet somehow, it is still legal to sell copying machines, pens, and paper. Does anybody really think Ricoh can be held liable for an illegal act committed with its copiers?

One notices that Musitek still offers the scanning software for sale. Finale was only providing a shortcut for using that software. And there are obviously many perfectly legal uses for the scanning software, just as there are many legal uses of copying machines. It doesn't seem Finale is very serious about remaining in this business.
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ttw
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   Posted 8/18/2016 12:41 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Of course it's a preposterous argument. But it's a rather common legal one. I've seen disclaimers on software warning not to use the CD case to prop up a ladder.


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CraigP
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   Posted 8/18/2016 1:12 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ttw said...
Of course it's a preposterous argument. But it's a rather common legal one. I've seen disclaimers on software warning not to use the CD case to prop up a ladder.


My point exactly. There was absolutely no legal reason to withdraw this feature. They simply could have added a popup that forced the user to acknowledge the user's copyright responsibilities before allowing the feature to run.

That's why I say it seems more likely that Musitek simply wasn't interested in continuing the deal and the legal thing makes a good cover story.
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