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ms'n'pencil
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   Posted 11/5/2016 12:29 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi;

My score is for small ensemble - no conductor - so I am creating individual parts in which I also include one or two other parts, which I reduce in size to become continuous cue parts.

In my score, all tempo indications are, of course, above the upper-most staff (voice).

In my piano Part, for example, I wish to include the voice part (above the piano part), but as a continuous cue staff. When I use reduce the voice staff in size, all tempo indications are, of course, also similarly reduced in size. What can I do to retain original tempo indication sizes while reducing its part's staff size?

I came upon a much older post that discusses this (http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=5&m=298110), but - unless I've misunderstood - it didn't seem to pose a solution.

Thanks, in advance, for your help!
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Motet
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   Posted 11/5/2016 12:40 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You can either show the tempo marks on the non-cue staff as well (it's common practice to show them on the piano staff or Violin I staff, for example) or click "fixed size" in the Tempo Marks category. (Since they may already be being resize, you may need to adjust the point size in this case in order for it to not be too big.)


Finale 2014.5, 2011b, 2005, TGTools
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ms'n'pencil
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   Posted 11/5/2016 1:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
You can either show the tempo marks on the non-cue staff as well (it's common practice to show them on the piano staff or Violin I staff, for example) or click "fixed size" in the Tempo Marks category. (Since they may already be being resize, you may need to adjust the point size in this case in order for it to not be too big.)


Hi, Motet - thanks for this. Two related questions:

In the situation that I've described, what is the correct practice:
    To show reduced-sized tempo indications on the upper, re-sized (voice) staff while also showing full-sized tempo indications on the main (eg, piano) part, below? Or,
    To show tempo indications only on the main part?



Re. "fixed size" in Tempo Marks: I've tried this in two different ways, but neither seems to work:
    Using Document > Category Designer > Tempo Marks > Text Font > Fixed size, the font size does not remain fixed when I re-size its staff.
    Using Expression Designer > Text > Fixed Size: "Fixed Size" only appears as an option when I uncheck the "Use Tempo Marks Category Fonts" -- when I do this, the default "Music Font ()Engraver Text T 12 Plain) is no longer available; when I instead choose "Engraver Text T 12 Plain", and check "Fixed Size", the resulting font is much larger than the original.


What am I doing wrong?

Thanks, again, for your help!
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N. Grossingink
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   Posted 11/5/2016 1:56 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The sad part about this behavior is that an option has never been provided to allow/disallow resizing of style markings, rehearsal marks, etc.

Are you listening, Mark Adler?

N.


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Motet
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   Posted 11/5/2016 2:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Which program are you using, ms'n'pencil? Fixed size in the Category designer works for me. Also, how are you reducing the top staff?


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ms'n'pencil
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   Posted 11/5/2016 2:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
Which program are you using, ms'n'pencil? Fixed size in the Category designer works for me. Also, how are you reducing the top staff?



Hi, Motet;

I'm using Finale 2012 for Windows, and I'm using the resize tool (" % ") to reduce the top staff -- Using the tool, I click on the top staff (so that it resizes the staff, rather than notes or page), and reduce it down to 70%.

Because none of this seems to work for me, I've been reduced to manually re-setting the font size for each individual tempo indication for that top staff, after I've resized it. Since my score contains far more than the usual, straight-forward tempo designations (many rits, accels, metric modulations, etc), I'm leaning more toward making those indications large enough to seem applicable to the main part (piano) while showing up only above the voice (cue) part -- the page seems way too cluttered, otherwise.
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Motet
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   Posted 11/5/2016 2:19 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That seems like a good plan. I don't know why a fixed size in the category didn't work, though.


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Motet
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   Posted 11/5/2016 2:30 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here's what I did:


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ms'n'pencil
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   Posted 11/5/2016 2:34 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
Here's what I did:

Thanks for this Motet! Alas, it's exactly what I had done, too.
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Motet
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   Posted 11/5/2016 2:51 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mysterious. Works for me with Finale 2011 and 2014.5.


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ms'n'pencil
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   Posted 11/5/2016 2:56 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
Mysterious. Works for me with Finale 2011 and 2014.5.

I created quite a few tempo indications when creating the score, so it's possible that some may be 'hiding' under another category. If I had more time, I'd experiment with it more. As it is, I'm discovering that as much work seems to have to go into fine tuning spacings, etc, as soon as one changes anything like staff size for Parts.

Thanks for your help, though, Motet -- I appreciate it!
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ms'n'pencil
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   Posted 11/5/2016 3:22 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
N. Grossingink said...
The sad part about this behavior is that an option has never been provided to allow/disallow resizing of style markings, rehearsal marks, etc.

Are you listening, Mark Adler?

N.


Now I see what N. Grossingink was referring to! When I re-size my upper staff (voice - cue), its rehearsal numbers are also resized. When I go to Document>Category Designer, and set it to Fixed Size, all my rehearsal numbers are suddenly larger than before, and - (weeping!) - even so, those rehearsal numbers attached to my re-sized upper staff still shrink accordingly, so that I'm left with TWO sizes for rehearsal numbers: those made too large by Fixed Size, and those now almost proper size where they shrank along with the upper staff size.

I will probably have to CREATE individual rehearsal letters, in order to manage this quirky behaviour.

Finale can be pure torture, at times. . .
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Motet
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   Posted 11/5/2016 8:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This may be a case where an extracted part is the way to go.


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ms'n'pencil
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   Posted 11/6/2016 4:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
This may be a case where an extracted part is the way to go.

Thanks, Motet - I may try that.
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Derrek
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   Posted 11/6/2016 11:45 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I find that if one uses a blank staff on top of the vocal staff, one can make this all work out for parts and score with one set of expressions. Since one can input music in the Scroll View, having one staff on top of the other in page view does not seem to cause problems.


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ms'n'pencil
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   Posted 11/6/2016 11:54 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Derrek said...
I find that if one uses a blank staff on top of the vocal staff, one can make this all work out for parts and score with one set of expressions. Since one can input music in the Scroll View, having one staff on top of the other in page view does not seem to cause problems.

Thanks, Derrek -- this sounds like a very workable idea! Next project! ; - )

As N. Grossingink and others have expressed, this feature should not require all these workarounds. MakeMusic, in Finale you have a superlative program: please address such glitches -- to do less is to disrespect the achievements of your predecessors.
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Motet
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   Posted 11/6/2016 12:25 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I thought of that, but didn't immediately see how to suppress the barlines. Or do you just let them overlap?


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Derrek
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   Posted 11/6/2016 2:52 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I used Staff Attributes to suppress just about everything on the "blank" staff.


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Peter Thomsen
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   Posted 11/6/2016 4:47 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Motet said...
I thought of that, but didn't immediately see how to suppress the barlines. Or do you just let them overlap?

To avoid the “stray” Left Barline, move the “blank” staff’s barlines vertically down into the staff below.

I suppose that this {moving barlines vertically down} trick is, what you mean by your word “overlap”?

Peter


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Derrek
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   Posted 11/6/2016 5:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yup.


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