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mm
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   Posted 11/5/2016 1:09 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've never tried this before, but now I started to look at ENSEMBLE in the ARIA player. Selecting "load" brings up a menu of presets(?) but none of them seem to actually work. Attached a screenshot. Is there something missing? Is this just a list of names to save certain ensembles under? How does this work? I have saved one specific setup and when I then go to "User" that's the only one showing and it does indeed load that configuration. Any insights in general? Thanks.


Finale 3.7 - 2014.5, GPO4/5, Cubase, ProTools, ASUS laptop, Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, WIN 8.1 (64-bit), 18.4'' display, M-Audio Keystation 49 + Mini 32 keyboards


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Charles Lawrence
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   Posted 11/5/2016 3:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

For me, selecting "load" does not bring up presets, but brings up a file selection dialog box, where you can navigate to any previously stored ensemble presets.  I have a "GPO" in the dropdown (click on the "-") which, upon hovering the mouse over, expands to 28 presets, all of which load fine.  You can also press the "<>" buttons to scroll and load sequential presets.

It looks like something is not installed or configured correctly for you, since the error messages indicate it cannot find the files it is looking for.


"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"

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Credo
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   Posted 11/5/2016 3:30 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Have you installed any of the expansion Garritan Libraries such as:
Personal Orchestra 4
Personal Orchestra 5
Concert and Marching Band
Jazz and Big Band
Instant Orchestra
Classic Pipe Organs
World Instruments
Etc....

If you have any of those, then you should see quite a number of factory ensemble presets under the Ensembles tab.
Essentially all it does is save a snap-shot image of the complete ARIA setup under whatever name you desire.

If you don't have any of these libraries installed, then you might not find many (if any) factory 'ensemble presets' in ARIA. The "Finale Sounds" library doesn't really need any presets because Finale itself is capable of calling up instruments automatically through the score manager.

With Finale they aren't quite as useful as they would be with something like a Tracking DAW that doesn't have a 'Score Manager" capable of calling up ARIA instruments for you. Finale's "Score Manager" has the ability to load ARIA instruments as it requires them. I make user Ensemble presets pretty often here when I'm using Cubase. It's a fast and easy way to port a common setup that I'd been using in Finale over to my DAW (I.E. To more quickly import a MIDI file made in Finale).

Where it will come in handy inside Finale is if you want to save a setup that 'matches' some of your commonly used Finale Score Templates. You could have unique Effect Settings, personalized EQ and other settings for each loaded instrument that would be easy to call up. Of course you'll want to keep such ensembles somewhat matched up with Specific score templates so the instruments are on the proper channels once you've called up a custom preset.

Post Edited (Credo) : 11/5/2016 3:37:23 PM (GMT-5)

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Ron.
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   Posted 11/5/2016 3:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The ensembles seem to be useful only in standalone mode. In Finale mode you still have to go the the score manager to set up staffs and instruments and it will override anything you might have done in the Aria player.


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Credo
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   Posted 11/5/2016 3:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ah,

After looking at your attached image.....

I suggest reinstalling both versions of GPO.

Once that's done make sure you've got the latest version of ARIA Player and Engine.
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mm
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   Posted 11/5/2016 4:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have ARIA player v.1.872 and engine v.1.860 (Win x86), but I think the problem is probably that something is in fact missing (such as the instrument sounds it looks for and can't find).
I have GPO 4.02 and GPO 5 (as well as GIFF that came with F2014.5 I suppose). The GPO libraries were downlaods - how can I re-install them?


Finale 3.7 - 2014.5, GPO4/5, Cubase, ProTools, ASUS laptop, Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, WIN 8.1 (64-bit), 18.4'' display, M-Audio Keystation 49 + Mini 32 keyboards

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Ron.
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   Posted 11/5/2016 4:39 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Have you installed the support files that you need with GPO?


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mm
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   Posted 11/5/2016 4:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What are they? And/or where to find/install?


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Ron.
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   Posted 11/5/2016 5:00 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
mm said...
What are they? And/or where to find/install?


The files and detailed instructions are at: /makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/225102728-Setting-up-Garritan-Personal-Orchestra-4-GPO4-with-Finale-and-PrintMusic


Finale 25

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

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Credo
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   Posted 11/5/2016 7:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If you still have the installation files for your Garritan stuff, run them.

If not, log into your makemusic account. You can download the newest versions from there.
https://account.makemusic.com/Account/Login

Run GPO5 installers last, as that may well have a newer version of ARIA.

Once you've done that, open ARIA and check in the INFO tab for the latest updates (there are icons you can click to check and update).
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Zuill
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   Posted 11/5/2016 8:17 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron. said...
The ensembles seem to be useful only in standalone mode. In Finale mode you still have to go the the score manager to set up staffs and instruments and it will override anything you might have done in the Aria player.
I use ensembles in Finale with Aria.
 
Zuill


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Ron.
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   Posted 11/5/2016 9:37 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
Ron. said...

The ensembles seem to be useful only in standalone mode. In Finale mode you still have to go the the score manager to set up staffs and instruments and it will override anything you might have done in the Aria player.I use ensembles in Finale with Aria.


Zuill


How? They don't load into the Score Manager.


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Zuill
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   Posted 11/5/2016 10:05 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In the Aria player, at the top where it says Ensemble.

Zuill


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mm
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   Posted 11/6/2016 4:42 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have reinstalled GIFF, GPO4 and GPO5, as well as the support files, all according to instructions and into the suggested directories. Everything works fine as usual, all the instrument libraries show in the ARIA player (also reinstalled, latest versions 1.872), however .... the ensemble feature in ARIA does not find any files to load for the listed preset ensembles (neither in GPO4 nor 5). Any ensembles that I have saved, do show up and load correctly.
So the question remains ... how? Where are those missing files? (see the attached original example - this is the kind of screen that pops up when trying to load an ensemble).
I don't think this would have anything to do with it, but just FYI - I only install the notation versions, never the stand alone.


Finale 3.7 - 2014.5, GPO4/5, Cubase, ProTools, ASUS laptop, Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, WIN 8.1 (64-bit), 18.4'' display, M-Audio Keystation 49 + Mini 32 keyboards

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Ron.
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   Posted 11/6/2016 6:41 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Zuill said...
In the Aria player, at the top where it says Ensemble.

Zuill


I know that Zuill. But, then go to the Score Manager and there is nothing there.


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Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

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mm
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   Posted 11/6/2016 8:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Credo said...
Finale's "Score Manager" has the ability to load ARIA instruments as it requires them. I make user Ensemble presets pretty often here when I'm using Cubase. It's a fast and easy way to port a common setup that I'd been using in Finale over to my DAW (I.E. To more quickly import a MIDI file made in Finale).
Yes, that's what I do in Finale, and saving ensembles there can easily be imported into a template (as long as the number of staves and channels is correct. I would like to port these setups into Cubase (because that's where I create all the real playback files), but haven't been able to achieve this (at least not with one simple action). Since this isn't really Finale related I sent you a PM with questions regarding this. Thanks for everybody's advice.


Finale 3.7 - 2014.5, GPO4/5, Dorico, Cubase, ProTools, ASUS laptop, Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, WIN 8.1 (64-bit), 18.4'' display, M-Audio Keystation 49 + Mini 32 keyboards

Post Edited (mm) : 11/6/2016 12:16:30 PM (GMT-6)

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mm
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   Posted 11/6/2016 1:16 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
another question - in the score manager, is there a short cut to set all devices to the same device at once? (other than doing it in VST Banks & Effects, where it can be done)


Finale 3.7 - 2014.5, GPO4/5, Dorico, Cubase, ProTools, ASUS laptop, Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, WIN 8.1 (64-bit), 18.4'' display, M-Audio Keystation 49 + Mini 32 keyboards

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Derrek
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   Posted 11/6/2016 2:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Not sure I understand your question. What do you mean by "all devices to the same device"? You can certainly set the Sound Map Priority in the MIDI/Audio Devices menu so that Finale will always try to find its instruments in (say) GPO5 and then GiFF before using SmartMusic SoftSynth. Is that what you are after?


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mm
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   Posted 11/6/2016 3:34 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I usually use the ARIA player as the device. This, a far as I can see, can't be chosen in the Sound Map Priority. The question was actually not all that relevant ... What I was thinking was that when I, let's say, open an existing old document that has GPO4 set as the device for all the sounds, I was just wondering if it could be changed to GPO5 or ARIA player, etc. with one shortcut in the Score Manger. But I realized since that it can easily be done in VST Banks & Effects.


Finale 3.7 - 2014.5, GPO4/5, Dorico, Cubase, ProTools, ASUS laptop, Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, WIN 8.1 (64-bit), 18.4'' display, M-Audio Keystation 49 + Mini 32 keyboards

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Ron.
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   Posted 11/6/2016 3:39 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am genuinely puzzled by this. After what Zuill posted, I opened a new document with a single blank staff and went to the Aria player where I selected a brass ensemble. Instruments loaded into channels. Back to my document, still only one blank staff--which is all that the score manager shows as well. That has always been my experience with Aria ensembles, so I have never seen a use for them.


Finale 25

GPO5, JaBB3, GIO, COMB2, GWI, GIFF, Steinway Basic.

Windows 7; 10 GB RAM.

www.composeforums.com

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 11/6/2016 3:55 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I wonder... if you create a string quartet and let Finale assign its own instruments (the wrong ones, let's say), then go tot eh Aria player and loaded a string quartet preset that you liked, if it would override the Finale default, and replace them with the right instruments?

This COULD be pretty useful for a large orchestral score where Finale defaults to almost all the wrong instruments for my taste.

I'll have to try this.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

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Michel R. E.
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   Posted 11/6/2016 4:33 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I just tested it.. while it's annoying that Finale just places instruments one after the other, never allowing you to select which instance of the Aria player you want to use, having presets (I saved "standard orchestra - woodwinds", then "standard orchestra - brass", etc... with my favourites, made things a lot easier!

I let finale load its defaults, then changed the banks in the Score manager to the ones I wanted, then within each instance of the Aria player I just loaded my pre-saved libraries. It over-road Finale's defaults and simply loaded my favourites.
The only spot where I noticed an "error" was that in my "string" presets I also had 5 extra channels set up with the old GOS strings techniques for harmonics. It seems that if there are no staves assigned to instruments, when you come to load the preset it doesn't load those that don't have staves.

It wasn't immensely faster, I still had to re-assign the instances in the score manager interface.
Which also pointed to an error in the interface!

It seems to be that the "Bank" column does not appear until you deselect "bank and channel" in customize view, then reselect them.


Finale (started with ver. 3.0) using 2012 (2014 has been shelved for its lack of support for older Garritan libraries), putting Finale 25 through its paces.
Windows 8.1
basically ALL Garritan libraries, plus XSample Chamber Ensemble.

"Art critics suffer from Pigeon Syndrome. Pigeons like to leave their mark on monuments. But at the end of the day, the pigeon remains a pigeon, and the monument remains a monument."

Post Edited (Michel R. E.) : 11/6/2016 3:36:05 PM (GMT-6)

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Credo
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   Posted 11/6/2016 4:43 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ron. said...
I am genuinely puzzled by this. After what Zuill posted, I opened a new document with a single blank staff and went to the Aria player where I selected a brass ensemble. Instruments loaded into channels. Back to my document, still only one blank staff--which is all that the score manager shows as well. That has always been my experience with Aria ensembles, so I have never seen a use for them.


It would only be useful if you wanted to do a bunch of special tweaks to a given ARIA instrument set that matches your score templates and load them up.

Example:

Imagine you've loaded a favorite template into Finale and made a composition. Later you decide to open ARIA and tweak things like the "Reverb Controls", individual EQ knobs, or even things like the legato offset in GOS strings.

You could save a snapshot of this ARIA instance for future use with the same Finale Score template.

Now, imagine you've used the same score template to do a brand new composition. Once Finale has loaded all the instruments into ARIA 'automatically' for the first time, you could then pull up ARIA and select your custom tweaked 'ensemble preset'. Now ARIA would have all your custom tweaks instead of the 'default' settings that were applied when Finale first called up the instruments. Since the correct 'instruments' are loaded in the slots, Finale won't see any need to try to change them (unless your score asks it to do so). The ARIA 'ensemble preset' gets applied directly from the ARIA UI, and should stick with the project from this point.

This is the sort of scenario where ARIA ensemble presets can come in handy from inside Finale.

Post Edited (Credo) : 11/6/2016 4:33:07 PM (GMT-6)

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Credo
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   Posted 11/6/2016 5:16 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
mm said...
Credo said...
Finale's "Score Manager" has the ability to load ARIA instruments as it requires them. I make user Ensemble presets pretty often here when I'm using Cubase. It's a fast and easy way to port a common setup that I'd been using in Finale over to my DAW (I.E. To more quickly import a MIDI file made in Finale).
Yes, that's what I do in Finale, and saving ensembles there can easily be imported into a template (as long as the number of staves and channels is correct. I would like to port these setups into Cubase (because that's where I create all the real playback files), but haven't been able to achieve this (at least not with one simple action). Since this isn't really Finale related I sent you a PM with questions regarding this. Thanks for everybody's advice.


In addition to the PM response I just thought of a scenario that I often use.

Here's my personal process for 'importing' a MIDI file that was made with Finale.

I'll use a string Quintet score template as an example. It consists of staves in the following order:
Violin 1
Violin 2
Viola
Cello
Contra

The first time ever....

1. Export the score from Finale as a type I MIDI file.

2. From inside Finale, open my ARIA Instance(s) and save the ensemble preset(s) with the name(s) I want.

3. open my favorite beginning template in Cubase that has how ever many instances of ARIA I need set up in the VSTi Rack. I'll go ahead and name an Aria Instance "ARIA Quintet 1" in the Cubase VSTi rack, pull up the ARIA UI, and load in the ensemble preset that was made back in Finale.

4. Import the MIDI file from Finale into Cubase.

5. Visually scan the imported MIDI tracks to make sure they are in proper 'Score Order'. If not, click-hold and drag the tracks around until they are in score order from top to bottom. In my experience, so far, it's always already been in the correct score order for me, but it's a good idea to check just in case.

6. Click the top track (Violin 1) so it selects. Hold down shift and click the last track (Contra). This will cause all 5 of my quintet tracks to be selected.

7. If my imported MIDI tracks are not already pointing to my "ARIA String Quartet 1" ARIA plugin as the output:
In the Cubase track inspector, hold alt-shift and click the 'output' menu. Choose the ARIA instance in the rack I want it to use. All of the selected tracks will now be directed to my "ARIA String Quintet 1" instance.

8. Check that my imported MIDI tracks are pointing to the correct MIDI channel in ARIA. In my experience so far, it's usually a perfect channel for channel match already, but if it's not you can make the needed changes.

9. Assign whatever MIDI track inspector things you want on your tracks. Assign colors, icons, whatever you need. If all of your String Quintet tracks are not still 'selected' at this point, select them (using ctrl or shift click methods). You can make a 'multi track' preset in Cubase at this point from the 'track inspector'. Give your 'Multi Track Preset' a name like, "ARIA String Quintet Ensemble", and attach whatever search tags you think might be helpful.

Now in the future, If you import this same sort of String Quintet score from a Finale generated MIDI file into Cubase you'll most likely be able to skip steps 6 - 9. After importing the MIDI file, you'd simply select ALL of the imported string ensemble tracks, then call up your "ARIA String Quintet Ensemble" track preset from the track inspector. It should then apply all those saved track settings from the preset (inspector settings, colors, icons, output and MIDI channel, etc.).

Just like with Finale, Templates can save you all sorts of time in Cubase. "Track Presets" can then allow you to easily tack on a bunch of Cubase Specific things that would otherwise be time consuming to do step by step every time you work on a new project. The first time you build them it can take several minutes, but from that point forward you've got templates and presets to call up and go to work with.

If you want to also do 'scores' inside Cubase, importing XML instead of MIDI is an option. I personally like to bring BOTH into Cubase. I'll pull in an xml score, drop all the tracks into a new folder, and 'mute' that. Then I'll pull in the translated MIDI file into a fresh folder from Finale for playback purposes. It gets much more complicated if you want 'score' stuff inside Cubase as well, but it is possible, and again...TEMPLATES are going to be one of the best ways to keep up with a lot of Cubase specific 'score editor' settings (layout settings).

Post Edited (Credo) : 11/6/2016 4:45:16 PM (GMT-6)

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Credo
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   Posted 11/6/2016 5:57 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Michel R. E. said...
I wonder... if you create a string quartet and let Finale assign its own instruments (the wrong ones, let's say), then go tot eh Aria player and loaded a string quartet preset that you liked, if it would override the Finale default, and replace them with the right instruments?

This COULD be pretty useful for a large orchestral score where Finale defaults to almost all the wrong instruments for my taste.

I'll have to try this.


The answer to this is 'maybe'.

If the MIDI channels match up between Finale's "Score Manager", and your ARIA ensemble preset, then yes....it will work. Note, even if things are 'slightly' different, you can often correct this by changing the channels in ARIA to match the Finale Score Manager. Sometimes it's worth the trouble, sometimes it's not. Just remember to load your ARIA Ensemble Preset AFTER setting up the Finale "Score Manager".

On the side, it is possible to load up an instance of a VSTi plugin that the 'Score Manager' part of Finale ignores (I.E. Do NOT assign a 'stave' to the instance).

I personally use ARIA Ensemble Presets frequently to get a large variety of articulations and playing styles from 'secondary instances'. In this case I load a bunch of stuff in extra instances of ARIA that the 'Score Manager' isn't even aware of. It's a BIG HELP in making use of the GPO 5 GOS instruments. Rather than using the 'key switching' variants of instruments....I can load up complete articulations in dedicated ARIA instrument slots...tweak them out for different tempos and styles of passages, and 'channel bounce' to them as needed given the proper score markings or Human Playback text filters.

This practice requires me to disable the included GOS Human Playback entries that were set up to use 'key switches', and make some of my own, that instead 'bounce channels'.

It takes a bit of planning and understanding though.

If you're using multiple instances of ARIA, things might get confusing fast if you're not careful. Understand that Score Manager only numbers Channels 1 - 16, but also shows you which 'plugin instance' it is using. Deeper down in the "Human Playback" settings, though possible, it's not as easy to address specific instances of plugins; however, channel bouncing is a simple concept. The first VSTi instance gets channesls 1-16 (or 0 - 15 with some filters), the second instance gets 17 - 32 (or 16 - 31 with some filters), and so on. Also be aware that some Human Playback entries can be confusing in that they start numbering channels from 0 instead of 1 (so you'll need to subtract one from what you'd expect to get proper channel bouncing filters to work). In contrast, directly assigning channel bounces to a specific score markings (as opposed to going through HP) might number channels as expected (from 1 up instead of 0)....so....if you do a channel bounce and it sounds 'one channel off' this is why!

So......yes.....you can find ways to make use of this part of ARIA in Finale. If you work with pretty ridged score templates that always have the same instruments in the same order, and they always apply them to the same MIDI channel(s), then you're in luck. If you're doing complicated 'channel hopping' techniques in Human Playback to trigger different articulations and playing styles, it can still be useful, but keep your workflow organized and consistent or you could run into problems.

Finally, realize that you should wait until Finale's Score Manager has done whatever it's going to do automatically (load the plugin and instruments) before loading the ensemble preset in ARIA. If you change anything in the Finale Score Manager later, it'll over-ride and change this in the relative ARIA Instance(s) to reflect the change(s).

Post Edited (Credo) : 11/6/2016 5:28:32 PM (GMT-6)

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